Discussion:
Sunpass Only exits on the Florida Turnpike
(too old to reply)
necromancer - ECHM
2009-03-24 14:48:22 UTC
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Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
Got that?"
--George Carlin
richard
2009-03-24 15:38:55 UTC
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On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:48:22 -0400, necromancer - ECHM
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
So why didn't you use US 192 which would bring you right into
kissimmee toll free?
See me wave at you?

I went over to the cape on the beachline, took a1a down to melbourne
and came back up 192. Hell of a nice ride.
necromancer - ECHM
2009-03-24 22:47:41 UTC
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Post by richard
So why didn't you use US 192 which would bring you right into
kissimmee toll free?
I drove US192 from Kissimme to IH4 once. IIRC, it was a big snarl of
traffic lights and dimwit tourists - besides which, I was down there
to watch baseball, not sit in traffic. Besides which to use the
turnpike only cost me US1.00 in toll and only took about 15 mins or
so.
Post by richard
See me wave at you?
No thanks....

--
necromancer - ECHM
b***@hotmail.com
2009-03-24 21:55:44 UTC
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Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
It's also a way to serve rapid development without a major ongoing
expense of labor to pay someone to collect the fare. Most of the
Sunpass only exits are to business parks, residential areas, and other
locations not likely to have a large number of occaisional tourist one
or two time users, but a lot of everyday commuter traffic types. If I
lived in the area, I would have a Sunpass. But I only pass through
once or twice a year. I have never needed to exit where it was Sunpass
only.
Larry G
2009-03-25 00:12:55 UTC
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Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
It's also a way to serve rapid development without a major ongoing
expense of labor to pay someone to collect the fare. Most of the
Sunpass only exits are to business parks, residential areas, and other
locations not likely to have a large number of occaisional tourist one
or two time users, but a lot of everyday commuter traffic types.  If I
lived in the area, I would have a Sunpass. But I only pass through
once or twice a year. I have never needed to exit where it was Sunpass
only.
If they have a system to capture your plate ID.. can't they bill you?

it would seem that if the plate id'ed was a random one never to be
seen again.. verses one that is seen everyday... they could let the
random one go and go after the daily violator..

wrong?
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-25 04:06:37 UTC
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Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right? So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
Michael G. Koerner
2009-03-25 05:41:47 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
Got that?"
--George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right? So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible. And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Larry G
2009-03-25 12:05:13 UTC
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Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.

I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-25 12:43:06 UTC
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Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
nope, FL won't adopt the ezpass because it is too expensive.

FL does not bill out of state toll evaders, leastways they never
billed me
Larry G
2009-03-25 13:38:07 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
nope, FL won't adopt the ezpass because it is too expensive.
FL does not bill out of state toll evaders, leastways they never
billed me
then all the other states that did adopt Ez-Pass as a standard were
fiscally irresponsible?

it would seem ...especially in Florida with a high percentage of
tourists that the cost of EZ-pass might be more than offset by the
additional revenue that they are not losing...

no?
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-25 14:51:59 UTC
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Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
nope, FL won't adopt the ezpass because it is too expensive.
FL does not bill out of state toll evaders, leastways they never
billed me
then all the other states that did adopt Ez-Pass as a standard were
fiscally irresponsible?
it would seem ...especially in Florida with a high percentage of
tourists that the cost of EZ-pass might be more than offset by the
additional revenue that they are not losing...
no?
I will put it to you like this.

E-Z pass states went for the Cadillac, FL went for the Chevy.

FL's was much cheaper and it serves their purposes. My guess would be
they get tolls from 90%+ of the traffic passing thru a toll booth, and
that is sufficient.

Judging by the tolls I evaded, they don't feel it is worth coming
after me or other out of staters.

I don't know if you are familiar with NJ's fiasco w/E-Z pass, but when
they initially installed it, they expected the installation costs
would be made up by toll evaders. fines and fees.

Such a boondoggle ensued, in the end it cost the state millions
Larry G
2009-03-25 18:56:18 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
nope, FL won't adopt the ezpass because it is too expensive.
FL does not bill out of state toll evaders, leastways they never
billed me
then all the other states that did adopt Ez-Pass as a standard were
fiscally irresponsible?
it would seem ...especially in Florida with a high percentage of
tourists that the cost of EZ-pass might be more than offset by the
additional revenue that they are not losing...
no?
I will put it to you like this.
E-Z pass states went for the Cadillac, FL went for the Chevy.
FL's was much cheaper and it serves their purposes.  My guess would be
they get tolls from 90%+ of the traffic passing thru a toll booth, and
that is sufficient.
Judging by the tolls I evaded, they don't feel it is worth coming
after me or other out of staters.
I don't know if you are familiar with NJ's fiasco w/E-Z pass, but when
they initially installed it, they expected the installation costs
would be made up by toll evaders. fines and fees.
Such a boondoggle ensued, in the end it cost the state millions
okay... is the problem that no matter where EZ pass is installed that
it is a boondoggle that cost millions.. or is it a problem with the
way that NJ did it?

I've used EZ-pass from Va through PA...Ohio..Illinois... and I found
it very convenient... and it just seemed logical not to have a unique
system for each state.... and that .. you would save a lot of
overhead... if you could centralize the computer stuff... across a
network...

We went through this with VDOT's Smart Tag... and eventually they
threw in the towel ... I presume... because it was cheaper to deal
with EZ-pass than trying to build and maintain their own system...

I know.. that most of us are not going to stop and get a separate
transponder every time we go across a state line... that would be not
only inconvenient but dumb IMHO.
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-25 19:51:18 UTC
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Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
nope, FL won't adopt the ezpass because it is too expensive.
FL does not bill out of state toll evaders, leastways they never
billed me
then all the other states that did adopt Ez-Pass as a standard were
fiscally irresponsible?
it would seem ...especially in Florida with a high percentage of
tourists that the cost of EZ-pass might be more than offset by the
additional revenue that they are not losing...
no?
I will put it to you like this.
E-Z pass states went for the Cadillac, FL went for the Chevy.
FL's was much cheaper and it serves their purposes.  My guess would be
they get tolls from 90%+ of the traffic passing thru a toll booth, and
that is sufficient.
Judging by the tolls I evaded, they don't feel it is worth coming
after me or other out of staters.
I don't know if you are familiar with NJ's fiasco w/E-Z pass, but when
they initially installed it, they expected the installation costs
would be made up by toll evaders. fines and fees.
Such a boondoggle ensued, in the end it cost the state millions
okay... is the problem that no matter where EZ pass is installed that
it is a boondoggle that cost millions.. or is it a problem with the
way that NJ did it?
Nope, it was only NJ. When the illustrious Christie was gov she loved
throwing money at contractors, the more the better, something to do
with campaign contributions to repubs..

The other states and agencies that have ez pass made cost estimates,
let a contract to the lowest bidder and that was it.

It was an expense to be paid out of toll revenue and it would provide
a convenience that was well worth the cost.

Not with Christie. Nope, could not come out of toll revenue, even
though esp on the NJTP was substantial. She wanted ONE contractor to
design and construct the whole shebanger, from soup to nutz.

Not only that but that contractor would be responsible for
enforcement.

And remember the whole thing was to be paid for by the violators,
guilty or innocent.

Oh, did those violation notices go flying, like snowflakes in a
blizzard.
Post by Larry G
I've used EZ-pass from Va through PA...Ohio..Illinois... and I found
it very convenient... and it just seemed logical not to have a unique
system for each state.... and that .. you would save a lot of
overhead... if you could centralize the computer stuff... across a
network...
With all due respect, not Ohio. They are not getting it until this
year.
It is convenient, and there was enormous pressure on OH to do it, or
some form of electronic tolling.

I think the way it is now, since OH did not have any electronic tolls,
you may as well go with ez pass as opposed to creating your own.
Post by Larry G
We went through this with VDOT's Smart Tag... and eventually they
threw in the towel ... I presume... because it was cheaper to deal
with EZ-pass than trying to build and maintain their own system...
I know.. that most of us are not going to stop and get a separate
transponder every time we go across a state line... that would be not
only inconvenient but dumb IMHO.
I doubt it. VA was probably the same as FL's Sunpass in cost to
construct and implement. Much cheaper then ez pass.

I think the deciding factor is this. FL for example, there are no
toll states adjacent to it.

Or really within 500 miles. So if 90+% of traffic through a toll
booth pays the toll or has a Sunpass, that is good enough.

Va, is the southern end of a whole bunch of toll states. And their
biggest toll facility, just guessing here, probably 50% of the traffic
is from one of those toll states.

My guess would be the revenues from the Chesapeake Bay Br tunnel paid
for the whole e-z pass.for the whole state.
Larry G
2009-03-25 20:58:46 UTC
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Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
nope, FL won't adopt the ezpass because it is too expensive.
FL does not bill out of state toll evaders, leastways they never
billed me
then all the other states that did adopt Ez-Pass as a standard were
fiscally irresponsible?
it would seem ...especially in Florida with a high percentage of
tourists that the cost of EZ-pass might be more than offset by the
additional revenue that they are not losing...
no?
I will put it to you like this.
E-Z pass states went for the Cadillac, FL went for the Chevy.
FL's was much cheaper and it serves their purposes.  My guess would be
they get tolls from 90%+ of the traffic passing thru a toll booth, and
that is sufficient.
Judging by the tolls I evaded, they don't feel it is worth coming
after me or other out of staters.
I don't know if you are familiar with NJ's fiasco w/E-Z pass, but when
they initially installed it, they expected the installation costs
would be made up by toll evaders. fines and fees.
Such a boondoggle ensued, in the end it cost the state millions
okay... is the problem that no matter where EZ pass is installed that
it is a boondoggle that cost millions.. or is it a problem with the
way that NJ did it?
Nope, it was only NJ.  When the illustrious Christie was gov she loved
throwing money at contractors, the more the better, something to do
with campaign contributions to repubs..
The other states and agencies that have ez pass made cost estimates,
let a contract to the lowest bidder and that was it.
It was an expense to be paid out of toll revenue and it would provide
a convenience that was well worth the cost.
Not with Christie.  Nope, could not come out of toll revenue, even
though esp on the NJTP was substantial.   She wanted ONE contractor to
design and construct the whole shebanger, from soup to nutz.
Not only that but that contractor would be responsible for
enforcement.
And remember the whole thing was to be paid for by the violators,
guilty or innocent.
Oh, did those violation notices go flying, like snowflakes in a
blizzard.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
I've used EZ-pass from Va through PA...Ohio..Illinois... and I found
it very convenient... and it just seemed logical not to have a unique
system for each state.... and that .. you would save a lot of
overhead... if you could centralize the computer stuff... across a
network...
With all due respect, not Ohio.  They are not getting it until this
year.
you're right.. we did have to pay some manual tolls....

CBBT ... I believe... was the last toll road in Va to convert to EZ-
Pass and they went direct from cash to EZ-pass I believe.
Musty
2009-03-25 22:07:00 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
I think the way it is now, since OH did not have any electronic tolls,
you may as well go with ez pass as opposed to creating your own.
Being sandwiched between EZ-Pass jurisdictions makes creating its own
rather foolish.
Post by r***@gmail.com
I think the deciding factor is this.  FL for example, there are no
toll states adjacent to it.
But I would think the snowbird contingent would like to have only one
transponder. I suppose those that insist on having only one get the
one where they drive tolled roads most often. The Florida agencies
likely have too much invested in SunPass now to consider adding EZ-
Pass readers. At least Illinois got smart and converted after first
introducing an incompatible I-PASS.

Brian
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-25 22:38:36 UTC
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Post by Musty
Post by r***@gmail.com
I think the way it is now, since OH did not have any electronic tolls,
you may as well go with ez pass as opposed to creating your own.
Being sandwiched between EZ-Pass jurisdictions makes creating its own
rather foolish.
Post by r***@gmail.com
I think the deciding factor is this.  FL for example, there are no
toll states adjacent to it.
But I would think the snowbird contingent would like to have only one
transponder. I suppose those that insist on having only one get the
one where they drive tolled roads most often. The Florida agencies
likely have too much invested in SunPass now to consider adding EZ-
Pass readers. At least Illinois got smart and converted after first
introducing an incompatible I-PASS.
Brian
I said in another post, FL does not send violation notices to out of
state vehicles. I know this from personal experience.

It is not worth it to them considering 90%+ of the traffic going thru
a toll booth pays a proper toll.

There was an article in the St Pete Times a while back. FDOT
considered ez pass back when they were instituting electronic tolling.

It was considerably more expensive.

and now they have this:

http://www.sunpass.com/MiniWebPDF_E.pdf

It is a good deal.

You have to understand, most of the tolls are in S Florida.

If you spend a lot of time there and/or use the toll roads a lot, it
makes it worthwhile

RE: IL Tollways and ezpass:

again IL has an ezpass state right next to it.

I know it was expensive for the tollways, but they want open road
tolling and it was worth the expense.

FL like I said, 90%+ of the traffic passing thru a toll pays the
proper toll.

They get that having paid for a Chevy instead of the Caddy
Musty
2009-03-26 02:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
again IL has an ezpass state right next to it.
But remember that Indiana didn't come on until after Illinois
converted.

Brian
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-26 04:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Musty
Post by r***@gmail.com
again IL has an ezpass state right next to it.
But remember that Indiana didn't come on until after Illinois
converted.
Brian
and OH is coming in last.

They hate it, but are sort of cornered

it is costing them about $11-12 million

http://www.ohioturnpike.org/business/construction/?category=Miscellaneous+Construction+Projects
Josh
2009-03-25 22:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
I would be all in favor of a federal law (similar to FCC mandates on
how dishes/antennas are allowed, what encryption mechanisms
broadcasters/cablecos can use, etc) that would require, by X date,
that all toll systems use a common transponder system.

It would be considered sufficient for a motorist to have a compatible
transponder on board; if a given toll agency isn't in compliance,
that's their choice to give up that payment, but they have no legal
recourse to fine/bill if so. Perhaps allow a SMALL processing charge
(under $1) for an out-of-state/area transponder-holder.

Josh
Larry G
2009-03-25 22:54:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
I would be all in favor of a federal law (similar to FCC mandates on
how dishes/antennas are allowed, what encryption mechanisms
broadcasters/cablecos can use, etc) that would require, by X date,
that all toll systems use a common transponder system.
It would be considered sufficient for a motorist to have a compatible
transponder on board; if a given toll agency isn't in compliance,
that's their choice to give up that payment, but they have no legal
recourse to fine/bill if so.  Perhaps allow a SMALL processing charge
(under $1) for an out-of-state/area transponder-holder.
I agree. I'm betting it won't be long before FHWA puts those very
strings on money... much as they do with other standards.
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-25 23:04:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
I would be all in favor of a federal law (similar to FCC mandates on
how dishes/antennas are allowed, what encryption mechanisms
broadcasters/cablecos can use, etc) that would require, by X date,
that all toll systems use a common transponder system.
It would be considered sufficient for a motorist to have a compatible
transponder on board; if a given toll agency isn't in compliance,
that's their choice to give up that payment, but they have no legal
recourse to fine/bill if so.  Perhaps allow a SMALL processing charge
(under $1) for an out-of-state/area transponder-holder.
Josh
so you are going to require states like FL to spend the extra money to
install ez pass
when they don't want it or need it.

it is going to require quite a bit of upfront money to change over
states like TX, GA, OK, CA, and KS that already have their own
systems.

I can assure you those states are like FL, they don't want it and they
don't need it.

I know OK and TX are the same as FL in that they don't send violations
to out of state toll evaders.

It is not worth it to them for a $1 or $2 toll.

The only way it could possibly happen is if the federales put up 100%
of the installation, and that is very unlikely
Larry G
2009-03-25 23:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Josh
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT), Larry G
Post by Larry G
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
 ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
 okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
 can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
 Got that?"
                          --George Carlin
Just to clarify, EZpass is also used in Florida, right?  So an EZpass
user could also use the Sunpass exits?
 From what I am aware of, the two systems are not compatible.  And it would
not surprise me at all if there is a fairly high number of EZPass users who
get 'surprised' when they get home from their Florida vacations.
Virginia started out the same way with it's own "Smart Tag" system.
I predict that over time.. there will be a seamless national network
and that most major new limited-access roads will be transponder
tolled.
I would be all in favor of a federal law (similar to FCC mandates on
how dishes/antennas are allowed, what encryption mechanisms
broadcasters/cablecos can use, etc) that would require, by X date,
that all toll systems use a common transponder system.
It would be considered sufficient for a motorist to have a compatible
transponder on board; if a given toll agency isn't in compliance,
that's their choice to give up that payment, but they have no legal
recourse to fine/bill if so.  Perhaps allow a SMALL processing charge
(under $1) for an out-of-state/area transponder-holder.
Josh
so you are going to require states like FL to spend the extra money to
install ez pass
when they don't want it or need it.
it is going to require quite a bit of upfront money to change over
states like TX, GA, OK, CA,  and KS that already have their own
systems.
I can assure you those states are like FL, they don't want it and they
don't need it.
I know OK and TX are the same as FL in that they don't send violations
to out of state toll evaders.
It is not worth it to them for a $1 or $2 toll.
The only way it could possibly happen is if the federales put up 100%
of the installation, and that is very unlikely
no.. the Feds don't work that way. They withhold your own funds until
you agree to their standards... but they may also give money to EZPass
itself to encourage them to connect other systems.

I think the greater good - is to have a nationwide system.... and one
universal transponder .... and I'm a tad bit skeptical of the Chevy/
Cadillac analogy.

If that is true - what is basically means is that all those states
(including Va) are using Cadillac toll systems instead of Chevy
systems...

... how big a cost difference is there anyhow?

It would seem that much higher tolls would have to be charged to
actually pay for the Cadillac systems.. right?
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-26 00:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
The only way it could possibly happen is if the federales put up 100%
of the installation, and that is very unlikely
no.. the Feds don't work that way. They withhold your own funds until
you agree to their standards... but they may also give money to EZPass
itself to encourage them to connect other systems.
I understand that. E-Z pass is a consortium administration of the
states that have it


http://www.e-zpassiag.com/

each individual agency contracts for its installation and operation
Post by Larry G
I think the greater good - is to have a nationwide system.... and one
universal transponder .... and I'm a tad bit skeptical of the Chevy/
Cadillac analogy.
If that is true - what is basically means is that all those states
(including Va) are using Cadillac toll systems instead of Chevy
systems...
... how big a cost difference is there anyhow?
It would seem that much higher tolls would have to be charged to
actually pay for the Cadillac systems.. right?
that is the reason several states decided to go with their own cheaper
systems

I will post this again

http://www.sunpass.com/MiniWebPDF_E.pdf

a sticker is not possible with easy pass

I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.

TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?

Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement

Put it to you this way,

How many TX plates or CA plates do you see using toll roads in VA?

OTOH how many times do you use their toll roads?

I will tell you again FL does not bother collecting a evaded toll from
out if staters.

If they were losing so much to those evaders, believe me they would
come after them.

The initial costs of easy pass must have been substantially more for
those big states not to use it

E-z pass is an expensive system, I am sure the IAG is not cheap, I
know the electronic toll implementation is not cheap.

Like I said, probably 50%+ of the cbbt traffic is out of state, and I
am sure VDOT felt the convenience was worth it.
Larry G
2009-03-26 01:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
that is the reason several states decided to go with their own cheaper
systems
I will post this again
http://www.sunpass.com/MiniWebPDF_E.pdf
well.. what is it about what you posted here that says it cheaper than
EZ-Pass?
Post by r***@gmail.com
a sticker is not possible with easy pass
not right now.. but what would prevent them picking up on a good
idea ?
Post by r***@gmail.com
I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.
TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?
Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement
Put it to you this way,
How many TX plates or CA plates do you see using toll roads in VA?
OTOH how many times do you use their toll roads?
I dunno.. it sure helped going through several midwest states

and if they do HOT Lanes in Wash/MD/DC ....which also has a lot of
eastcoast traffic... don't you think it necessary there?

If in the future .. NC and SC.. start tolling interstates.. or new
lanes on interstates.. folks going from NY to Florida could do the
transit with one transponder?
Post by r***@gmail.com
I will tell you again FL does not bother collecting a evaded toll from
out if staters.
right now... perhaps.. my impression is that.. especially in the
winter months that there are quite a few folks that head south to
Florida... but I don't live there so don't know...
Post by r***@gmail.com
If they were losing so much to those evaders, believe me they would
come after them.
or just add the lost tolls to Florida folks... that's what you'd do
if you used an incompatible system and wanted to keep costs down due
to "shrinkage".

so.. maybe you guys are, in fact, paying higher tolls to cover the
lost tolls...

no?
Post by r***@gmail.com
The initial costs of easy pass must have been substantially more for
those big states not to use it
naw...probably more like Md and Va which wanted to do their own
systems... that's what DOTs do.. they tend to want to handle
everything within their own states.
Post by r***@gmail.com
E-z pass is an expensive system, I am sure the IAG is not cheap, I
know the electronic toll implementation is not cheap.
are there any studies that show comparisons between the systems?
Post by r***@gmail.com
Like I said, probably 50%+ of the cbbt traffic is out of state, and I
am sure VDOT felt the convenience was worth it.
they changed over local toll roads in the Richmond Area... and both
the Dulles Toll Road and Dulles Greenway use EZ-Pass ... in fact all
of Virginia's toll roads use EZ-Pass and many if not most of them used
the earlier Virginia-only Smart Tag system....

WVA turnpike uses them... Maryland uses them.. Pennsylvania, New York,
Maine, New Jersey, Delaware,

wiki has complete info including:

" Various independent systems that use the same technology have been
integrated into the E-ZPass system. These include Fast Lane in
Massachusetts, I-Pass in Illinois, i-Zoom in Indiana, and the defunct
M-Tag in Maryland and Smart Tag in Virginia."

all of these systems changed over... why would they do it if it was
more expensive than their own systems?

but you may be right.. this could be a mostly northeast/midwest deal
that works because the states are relatively small compared to Texas,
Florida and California...

so a question for you.

Is FDOT expanding it's toll road system?
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-26 04:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
that is the reason several states decided to go with their own cheaper
systems
I will post this again
http://www.sunpass.com/MiniWebPDF_E.pdf
well.. what is it about what you posted here that says it cheaper than
EZ-Pass?
Post by r***@gmail.com
a sticker is not possible with easy pass
not right now.. but what would prevent them picking up on a good
idea ?
Post by r***@gmail.com
I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.
TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?
Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement
Put it to you this way,
How many TX plates or CA plates do you see using toll roads in VA?
OTOH how many times do you use their toll roads?
I dunno.. it sure helped going through several midwest states
and if they do HOT Lanes in Wash/MD/DC ....which also has a lot of
eastcoast traffic... don't you think it necessary there?
If in the future .. NC and SC.. start tolling interstates.. or new
lanes on interstates.. folks going from NY to Florida could do the
transit with one transponder?
Post by r***@gmail.com
I will tell you again FL does not bother collecting a evaded toll from
out if staters.
right now... perhaps..  my impression is that.. especially in the
winter months that there are quite a few folks that head south to
Florida... but I don't live there so don't know...
Post by r***@gmail.com
If they were losing so much to those evaders, believe me they would
come after them.
  or just add the lost tolls to Florida folks...  that's what you'd do
if you used an incompatible system and wanted to keep costs down due
to "shrinkage".
so.. maybe you guys are, in fact, paying higher tolls to cover the
lost tolls...
no?
Post by r***@gmail.com
The initial costs of easy pass must have been substantially more for
those big states not to use it
naw...probably more like Md and Va which wanted to do their own
systems... that's what DOTs do.. they tend to want to handle
everything within their own states.
Post by r***@gmail.com
E-z pass is an expensive system, I am sure the IAG is not cheap, I
know the electronic toll implementation is not cheap.
are there any studies that show comparisons between the systems?
Post by r***@gmail.com
Like I said, probably 50%+ of the cbbt traffic is out of state, and I
am sure VDOT felt the convenience was worth it.
they changed over local toll roads in the Richmond Area... and both
the Dulles Toll Road and Dulles Greenway use EZ-Pass ... in fact all
of Virginia's toll roads use EZ-Pass and many if not most of them used
the earlier Virginia-only Smart Tag system....
WVA turnpike uses them... Maryland uses them.. Pennsylvania, New York,
Maine, New Jersey, Delaware,
" Various independent systems that use the same technology have been
integrated into the E-ZPass system. These include Fast Lane in
Massachusetts, I-Pass in Illinois, i-Zoom in Indiana, and the defunct
M-Tag in Maryland and Smart Tag in Virginia."
all of these systems changed over... why would they do it if it was
more expensive than their own systems?
but you may be right.. this could be a mostly northeast/midwest deal
that works because the states are relatively small compared to Texas,
Florida and California...
so a question for you.
Is FDOT expanding it's toll road system?
Post by r***@gmail.com
that is the reason several states decided to go with their own cheaper
systems
I will post this again
http://www.sunpass.com/MiniWebPDF_E.pdf
well.. what is it about what you posted here that says it cheaper than
EZ-Pass?
I said before, I read a while back in the St Pete Times that the
reason FL Tpk went with Sunpass was that it was cheaper.

I have emailed FL Tpk Enterprise and hopefully I will hear back from
them, and I will post it.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
a sticker is not possible with easy pass
not right now.. but what would prevent them picking up on a good
idea ?
IIRC we have been thru this.

the eazy pass transponder requires a battery.

Some years ago, the Delaware River Port Auth had its own system that
used a sticker on the left side window.

I don't think it worked very well, and they subsequently switched to
easy pass.

Continuing, most states in the northeast allow only stickers for insp
and registration in vehicle windshields.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.
TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?
Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement
Put it to you this way,
How many TX plates or CA plates do you see using toll roads in VA?
OTOH how many times do you use their toll roads?
I dunno.. it sure helped going through several midwest states
and if they do HOT Lanes in Wash/MD/DC ....which also has a lot of
eastcoast traffic... don't you think it necessary there?
If in the future .. NC and SC.. start tolling interstates.. or new
lanes on interstates.. folks going from NY to Florida could do the
transit with one transponder?
I would imagine ezpass would then move to the south, but that is a
long way off.

SC has its own system, Palmetto Pass for the toll road around
Greenville
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
I will tell you again FL does not bother collecting a evaded toll from
out if staters.
right now... perhaps.. my impression is that.. especially in the
winter months that there are quite a few folks that head south to
Florida... but I don't live there so don't know...
Post by r***@gmail.com
If they were losing so much to those evaders, believe me they would
come after them.
or just add the lost tolls to Florida folks... that's what you'd do
if you used an incompatible system and wanted to keep costs down due
to "shrinkage".
so.. maybe you guys are, in fact, paying higher tolls to cover the
lost tolls...
no?
I sincerely doubt if it is that much they are losing to out of state
evaders.

Like I have been saying 90%+ of the traffic thru a toll booth pays the
proper toll.

And there are no tolls comparable to the gwb or the MTA crossings.

They are mostly $1

You have to keep things in context.

And you know what they do when traffic is heavy? They station
troopers at the toll booths. Now if you evade a toll and he sees you,
you are getting a citation.

btw, I said out of state evaders, their sunpass operates just like
easy pass for for evaders, and if you have a FL tag, you will get a
violation notice.

It is just they don't send out of state.

If you want my theory, they do not want to piss off the touristas.
I mean have a nice enjoyable vacation in FL, and when you get home
there is a violation notice for a couple of dollars. They do not want
to do that.

Another thing I know from experience. If you get a moving violation
in FL, they do not send a conviction notice to your home state.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
The initial costs of easy pass must have been substantially more for
those big states not to use it
naw...probably more like Md and Va which wanted to do their own
systems... that's what DOTs do.. they tend to want to handle
everything within their own states.
Yep, that is true, but there is a matter of convenience.

Look to the map. VA is going to have one, and MD is going to have
another.

That makes no sense. And they are both going to have separate
administrations?

Again that makes no sense.

I suppose they could have done something jointly, but considering
where MD is, ez pass made sense for them

You know something else. the IAG is a cooperative group, and there are
certain advantages that I am sure make it worth the cost

One thing I know they do is this.

If you look on the overhead sign structures, some of them have ezpass
readers, on various "free" interstate hwys.

I don't want to get anyone's paranoia going, but I know they keep
track of where people go off the toll roads.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
E-z pass is an expensive system, I am sure the IAG is not cheap, I
know the electronic toll implementation is not cheap.
are there any studies that show comparisons between the systems?
I have emailed FL Tpk Enterprise and hopefully I will hear back from
them, and I will post it.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Like I said, probably 50%+ of the cbbt traffic is out of state, and I
am sure VDOT felt the convenience was worth it.
they changed over local toll roads in the Richmond Area... and both
the Dulles Toll Road and Dulles Greenway use EZ-Pass ... in fact all
of Virginia's toll roads use EZ-Pass and many if not most of them used
the earlier Virginia-only Smart Tag system....
My hunch is this, if you are going to pay for one, you may as well pay
for everything.

VA is not a massive toll state, like the others.

What are you talking about 10-12 toll booths?

And I have to believe the new tolls in Richmond were built for easy
pass only.
Post by Larry G
WVA turnpike uses them
WV never had its own system. The only system they had was ez pass.

And believe me, a lot of people like Idiot Arif and Kookie ar still
bitching about the cost. There are only 3 tolls, what did they need
it for?

You know how it goes.



... Maryland uses them.. Pennsylvania, New York,
Post by Larry G
Maine, New Jersey, Delaware,
" Various independent systems that use the same technology have been
integrated into the E-ZPass system. These include Fast Lane in
Massachusetts, I-Pass in Illinois, i-Zoom in Indiana, and the defunct
M-Tag in Maryland and Smart Tag in Virginia."
all of these systems changed over... why would they do it if it was
more expensive than their own systems?
but you may be right.. this could be a mostly northeast/midwest deal
that works because the states are relatively small compared to Texas,
Florida and California...
You sort of have it backwards.

I believe it has more to do with toll hwy MILEAGE, then the actual
population.

TX and CA have very little toll mileage.

Most of the toll hwy mileage in the US is what you just describe.

My feeling is that the existing electronic toll systems in CA and TX
are very appropriate for their very short toll systems.

FL made a decision based on cost.

What I am saying given their huge populations, the federales are not
going to ram something they don't want or need down their throats.

You mention the states that had their own systems like MA.

They developed their own systems before ez pass really got going.

Remember it was strictly MTA B & T, Port Authority, and NY Thruway.

I got mine from the Thruway way before NJ had it.

Then they told me I had to turn the Thruway transponder in and they
sent me a Port Auth transponder. Why? I have no idea.

The only other time they contacted me was to send the PA transponder
for a new one with fresh batteries.

I remember the Thruway did a lot of testing as they were not sure how
well it would work in the snow and ice of Buffalo.

Also in the early days they were not sure how well it would work on a
ticket system like the thruway.

As a side note, having nothing to do with easy pass, OK changed from a
ticket system to a barrier toll system to implement their electronic
tolls


also they were building new tpks and a barrier system is cheaper







so a question for you.
Post by Larry G
Is FDOT expanding it's toll road system?
http://www.floridasturnpike.com/about_system.cfm

there are also other authorities:

http://www.expresswayauthority.com/Corporate/

Orange Co.

http://www.tampa-xway.com/home.html

Hillsborough Co.

BTW if you read about the reversible lanes, they had a bridge collapse
during construction that made them and the contractors look like a
bunch of idiots

this is an interesting proj they are working on:

http://www.tampa-xway.com/GandyProject.html

they wanted to build east of I-75 a Brandon Bypass, but with all the
probs they had with the reversibles that got shot down in flames

and this is Miami Dade:

http://www.mdx-way.com/
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-26 04:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
that is the reason several states decided to go with their own cheaper
systems
I will post this again
http://www.sunpass.com/MiniWebPDF_E.pdf
well.. what is it about what you posted here that says it cheaper than
EZ-Pass?
I said before, I read a while back in the St Pete Times that the
reason FL Tpk went with Sunpass was that it was cheaper.

I have emailed FL Tpk Enterprise and hopefully I will hear back from
them, and I will post it.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
a sticker is not possible with easy pass
not right now.. but what would prevent them picking up on a good
idea ?
IIRC we have been thru this.

the eazy pass transponder requires a battery.

Some years ago, the Delaware River Port Auth had its own system that
used a sticker on the left side window.

I don't think it worked very well, and they subsequently switched to
easy pass.

Continuing, most states in the northeast allow only stickers for insp
and registration in vehicle windshields.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.
TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?
Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement
Put it to you this way,
How many TX plates or CA plates do you see using toll roads in VA?
OTOH how many times do you use their toll roads?
I dunno.. it sure helped going through several midwest states
and if they do HOT Lanes in Wash/MD/DC ....which also has a lot of
eastcoast traffic... don't you think it necessary there?
If in the future .. NC and SC.. start tolling interstates.. or new
lanes on interstates.. folks going from NY to Florida could do the
transit with one transponder?
I would imagine ezpass would then move to the south, but that is a
long way off.

SC has its own system, Palmetto Pass for the toll road around
Greenville
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
I will tell you again FL does not bother collecting a evaded toll from
out if staters.
right now... perhaps..  my impression is that.. especially in the
winter months that there are quite a few folks that head south to
Florida... but I don't live there so don't know...
Post by r***@gmail.com
If they were losing so much to those evaders, believe me they would
come after them.
  or just add the lost tolls to Florida folks...  that's what you'd do
if you used an incompatible system and wanted to keep costs down due
to "shrinkage".
so.. maybe you guys are, in fact, paying higher tolls to cover the
lost tolls...
no?
I sincerely doubt if it is that much they are losing to out of state
evaders.

Like I have been saying 90%+ of the traffic thru a toll booth pays the
proper toll.

And there are no tolls comparable to the gwb or the MTA crossings.

They are mostly $1

You have to keep things in context.

And you know what they do when traffic is heavy? They station
troopers at the toll booths. Now if you evade a toll and he sees you,
you are getting a citation.

btw, I said out of state evaders, their sunpass operates just like
easy pass for for evaders, and if you have a FL tag, you will get a
violation notice.

It is just they don't send out of state.

If you want my theory, they do not want to piss off the touristas.
I mean have a nice enjoyable vacation in FL, and when you get home
there is a violation notice for a couple of dollars. They do not want
to do that.

Another thing I know from experience. If you get a moving violation
in FL, they do not send a conviction notice to your home state.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
The initial costs of easy pass must have been substantially more for
those big states not to use it
naw...probably more like Md and Va which wanted to do their own
systems... that's what DOTs do.. they tend to want to handle
everything within their own states.
Yep, that is true, but there is a matter of convenience.

Look to the map. VA is going to have one, and MD is going to have
another.

That makes no sense. And they are both going to have separate
administrations?

Again that makes no sense.

I suppose they could have done something jointly, but considering
where MD is, ez pass made sense for them

You know something else. the IAG is a cooperative group, and there are
certain advantages that I am sure make it worth the cost

One thing I know they do is this.

If you look on the overhead sign structures, some of them have ezpass
readers, on various "free" interstate hwys.

I don't want to get anyone's paranoia going, but I know they keep
track of where people go off the toll roads.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
E-z pass is an expensive system, I am sure the IAG is not cheap, I
know the electronic toll implementation is not cheap.
are there any studies that show comparisons between the systems?
I have emailed FL Tpk Enterprise and hopefully I will hear back from
them, and I will post it.
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Like I said, probably 50%+ of the cbbt traffic is out of state, and I
am sure VDOT felt the convenience was worth it.
they changed over local toll roads in the Richmond Area... and both
the Dulles Toll Road and Dulles Greenway use EZ-Pass ... in fact all
of Virginia's toll roads use EZ-Pass and many if not most of them used
the earlier Virginia-only Smart Tag system....
My hunch is this, if you are going to pay for one, you may as well pay
for everything.

VA is not a massive toll state, like the others.

What are you talking about 10-12 toll booths?

And I have to believe the new tolls in Richmond were built for easy
pass only.
Post by Larry G
WVA turnpike uses them
WV never had its own system. The only system they had was ez pass.

And believe me, a lot of people like Idiot Arif and Kookie ar still
bitching about the cost. There are only 3 tolls, what did they need
it for?

You know how it goes.



... Maryland uses them.. Pennsylvania, New York,
Post by Larry G
Maine, New Jersey, Delaware,
" Various independent systems that use the same technology have been
integrated into the E-ZPass system. These include Fast Lane in
Massachusetts, I-Pass in Illinois, i-Zoom in Indiana, and the defunct
M-Tag in Maryland and Smart Tag in Virginia."
all of these systems changed over... why would they do it if it was
more expensive than their own systems?
but you may be right.. this could be a mostly northeast/midwest deal
that works because the states are relatively small compared to Texas,
Florida and California...
You sort of have it backwards.

I believe it has more to do with toll hwy MILEAGE, then the actual
population.

TX and CA have very little toll mileage.

Most of the toll hwy mileage in the US is what you just describe.

My feeling is that the existing electronic toll systems in CA and TX
are very appropriate for their very short toll systems.

FL made a decision based on cost.

What I am saying given their huge populations, the federales are not
going to ram something they don't want or need down their throats.

You mention the states that had their own systems like MA.

They developed their own systems before ez pass really got going.

Remember it was strictly MTA B & T, Port Authority, and NY Thruway.

I got mine from the Thruway way before NJ had it.

Then they told me I had to turn the Thruway transponder in and they
sent me a Port Auth transponder. Why? I have no idea.

The only other time they contacted me was to send the PA transponder
for a new one with fresh batteries.

I remember the Thruway did a lot of testing as they were not sure how
well it would work in the snow and ice of Buffalo.

Also in the early days they were not sure how well it would work on a
ticket system like the thruway.

As a side note, having nothing to do with easy pass, OK changed from a
ticket system to a barrier toll system to implement their electronic
tolls


also they were building new tpks and a barrier system is cheaper







so a question for you.
Post by Larry G
Is FDOT expanding it's toll road system?
http://www.floridasturnpike.com/about_system.cfm

there are also other authorities:

http://www.expresswayauthority.com/Corporate/

Orange Co.

http://www.tampa-xway.com/home.html

Hillsborough Co.

BTW if you read about the reversible lanes, they had a bridge collapse
during construction that made them and the contractors look like a
bunch of idiots

this is an interesting proj they are working on:

http://www.tampa-xway.com/GandyProject.html

they wanted to build east of I-75 a Brandon Bypass, but with all the
probs they had with the reversibles that got shot down in flames

and this is Miami Dade:

http://www.mdx-way.com/
Josh
2009-03-26 05:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
a sticker is not possible with easy pass
I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.
TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?
Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement
That's fine -- they don't have to change anything over. But under
this law, my posession of a "Compati-pass" will be considered full and
complete payment, and I can zip through the special lanes, whether
they choose to install equipment to collect it or not. If they truly
believe the number of people with these is small, they can choose not
to; not my problem.

Just like the state can't say "oh, we only accept payment in
Florida-scrip, no US dollars. And Florida-scrip is only available in
our state store, with a $50 fee for non-residents to buy", or decide
that *their* TV stations should broadcast a different format than the
rest of the nationI don't believe they should be allowed to specify
incompatible toll payment systems.

The resulting system doesn't have to be EZ-pass (and doesn't
necessarily have to be limited to just one transponder scheme), and
can certainly add any "sticker" or other features that might be
desired.

This is just basic consumer-friendly law...

Josh
Larry G
2009-03-26 12:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mar 26, 1:34 am, Josh <***@nobody.org> wrote:

" This is just basic consumer-friendly law"

not most DOT's strongest point...
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-26 18:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Larry G
" This is just basic consumer-friendly law"
not most DOT's strongest point...
umm, as I said, such a thing does not exist.

There are several workable systems out there that already do.
Larry G
2009-03-26 21:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
" This is just basic consumer-friendly law"
not most DOT's strongest point...
umm, as I said, such a thing does not exist.
There are several workable systems out there that already do.
I think we need a nationwide standard unless we can see some serious
proof that such a system would be more expensive and less customer
friendly that a bunch of incompatible systems.

For instance.. a guy flys to Florida on business and he rents a
vehicle and there's the additional fru fru with whether or not he
needs to do the paperwork for the transponder. If he had his own..
he'd use it just like his own.. and see it on his own online
statement...

Ditto on vacation. You want to use the toll roads.. you know that
you're supposed to be paying.. and as an out-of-state person.. you
probably don't know that they'll not come after you... so you want to
do the right thing...without worrying and hassles... People are
happier when they know the rules and can follow them... they don't
like to feel like they've done something wrong - even if someone tells
them that they won't get a ticket....

I think the argument for a stand-alone system is weak.

All the technology is similar and if not uniform and standardized..
certainly headed that way.

It would be hard to believe that FDOT could do it substantially
cheaper because if that were the case - the other states would be
leaving EZPass.. not converting to it...

Looks like at least 5 separate states dropped their own systems and
went to EZ-pass... hard to believe they all went to a more expensive
system...why would they?
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-27 03:42:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Larry G
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Larry G
" This is just basic consumer-friendly law"
not most DOT's strongest point...
umm, as I said, such a thing does not exist.
There are several workable systems out there that already do.
I think we need a nationwide standard unless we can see some serious
proof that such a system would be more expensive and less customer
friendly that a bunch of incompatible systems.
Fine and dandy, but given the way congress is operating, do you really
think this will happen anytime soon?

And what is you considered opinion, forcing ez pass states to change,
considering their tremendous investment, or forcing everyone else to
go to ez pass?
Post by Larry G
For instance.. a guy flys to Florida on business and he rents a
vehicle and there's the additional fru fru with whether or not he
needs to do the paperwork for the transponder.   If he had his own..
he'd use it just like his own.. and see it on his own online
statement...
Ditto on vacation. You want to use the toll roads.. you know that
you're supposed to be paying.. and as an out-of-state person.. you
probably don't know that they'll not come after you... so you want to
do the right thing...without worrying and hassles...   People are
happier when they know the rules and can follow them... they don't
like to feel like they've done something wrong - even if someone tells
them that they won't get a ticket....
http://www.dollar.com/AboutUs/PressRelease/090908_1.aspx

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/3748


There are things available for use in FL w/Sunpass

A: You may use your SunPass Portable personal transponder on another
vehicle that has the same number of axles, as long as the vehicle and
license plate are listed on your account information. Transponders
issued to commercial accounts are interchangeable between vehicles,
regardless of vehicle type or axle count. For your convenience, the
SunPass Portable transponders may be easily moved from car to car.
However, all vehicles and license plates must be listed on your
account information.

http://www.sunpass.com/installation.cfm


if you notice, sunpass is held w/suction cups rather then adhesive
strips, so you don't have adhesive to the windshield.

If I was using a rental car thru extensive tolls, I might get one and
ask for a refund upon return.

You can do that.






I know some thing else from personal experience.

As long as you have the transponder in your vehicle, it DOES NOT have
to be mounted on the windshield.

I can be sitting on the center console, or someone in the rt seat can
be holding it.

It WILL work, no matter what they say.

Look, I rented a car in NJ for two weeks.

I wanted to use my ez pass, but the rental agreement prohibited
anything being stuck to a windshield, iow the adhesive attachment
strips.

so fine, I either held it in my hand, or had my passenger hold it in
their hand.

Never had a prob
Post by Larry G
I think the argument for a stand-alone system is weak.
All the technology is similar and if not uniform and standardized..
certainly headed that way.
It would be hard to believe that FDOT could do it substantially
cheaper because if that were the case - the other states would be
leaving EZPass.. not converting to it...
Looks like at least 5 separate states dropped their own systems and
went to EZ-pass... hard to believe they all went to a more expensive
system...why would they?
r***@gmail.com
2009-03-26 18:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
a sticker is not possible with easy pass
I sincerely doubt that the federales will mandate a single system,
ever.
TX, FL, CA are three of the biggest states, what need do they have to
change over?
Now you are going to tell me the feds are going to mandate something
they don't want, don't need, and is of very little federal involvement
That's fine -- they don't have to change anything over.  But under
this law, my posession of a "Compati-pass" will be considered full and
complete payment, and I can zip through the special lanes, whether
they choose to install equipment to collect it or not.  If they truly
believe the number of people with these is small, they can choose not
to; not my problem.
that is fine, until there is a trooper sitting there, he immediately
knows the toll has not been paid, and you receive a citation
answerable in court.

and what law are you talking about? to my knowledge no one is
proposing such a thing. You realize all states that changed to ez
pass did so with no mandate, federal or otherwise.

furthermore you realize toll roads are private roads which allow
public use, but they are not state roads, they are property of the
operating authority.

evading tolls is not legal, as I said a trooper can and will write a
citation answerable in court

all I said was that the Florida Tpk Enterprise does not send toll
evasion notices to out of state violators.
Just like the state can't say "oh, we only accept payment in
Florida-scrip, no US dollars.  And Florida-scrip is only available in
our state store, with a $50 fee for non-residents to buy", or decide
that *their* TV stations should broadcast a different format than the
rest of the nationI don't believe they should be allowed to specify
incompatible toll payment systems.
Earth to Josh, please come back, we miss you.

What you are talking about is an electronic toll system adopted by the
Florida Tpk Enterprise.

How is that analogous to your point?

Sun pass is easy to purchase and cheap

http://www.sunpass.com/index.cfm
The resulting system doesn't have to be EZ-pass (and doesn't
necessarily have to be limited to just one transponder scheme), and
can certainly add any "sticker" or other features that might be
desired.
This is just basic consumer-friendly law...
Great, when does this happen?

I seriously doubt any one such system exists, and I further doubt
that the federales, meaning the US Congress would given the existing
financial climate, would either mandate or provide financing.

What state do you suppose would do such a thing that does not exist,
when there are very workable systems available now.
Josh
t***@gmail.com
2016-02-22 23:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by necromancer - ECHM
Headed down to Kissimmee yesterday for a little baseball and couldn't
help but notice at the Consulate Rd exit on the FL Turnpike that the
exit ramp (or one of them anyway if there was a second one somewhere)
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
--
"This item demonstrates how stupid the average American is. Every
ninety minutes someone in this country is hit by a train. A train,
okay? Trains are on tracks; they can't come and get you. They
can't surprise you when you step off a curb. You have to go to them.
Got that?"
--George Carlin
I got unpaid toll violation 3.50 and paid it on line you do not want sent it to collection and hassle I paid it off. I was visiting orlando for business from Houston Texas.
Best Regard
H Lavi
John Levine
2016-02-23 01:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by necromancer - ECHM
was a Sunpass only exit (no cash accepted). Also noted a warning at
the US192/441 exit for Kissimmee that the next exit accepting cash was
52 miles ahead. Kind of a subtle way of, "encouraging," Sunpass sales,
innit?
If you ever get to Miami, you'll find that approximately none of the
toll roads take cash. Either get a Sunpass or pay the video plate
rate when they mail you a bill.

I live in New York and have a Sunpass I stick on the rental car's
windshield when I'm in Florida, avoiding both the video fee and the
ridiculous service charge to use the one in the car car. It did
require planning ahead enough to order it online, but it's not a big
deal.

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