Discussion:
Middleton, WI West Beltline project to begin in winter
(too old to reply)
Bob S
2004-01-16 15:04:50 UTC
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http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php

Launching a highway project that reroutes traffic in mid-winter is
rare. <

But that's just what the state Department of Transportation is doing
to limit how long nearly 25,000 commuters who travel between Madison
and Sauk City on Highway 12 will have to deal with construction
delays. <

The Highway 12 project's newest phase - involving reconstruction of
bridges that carry traffic over University Avenue in Middleton - is
expected to be completed by late fall 2005, according to state
Department of Transportation project manager Curt Neuhauser. <

"If we get a lot of snow, this could all be pushed back," Neuhauser
said. "There's a lot of work to be done and we want to get it finished
this year, so we have to get a head start." <

Starting Monday, the westbound Beltline will be reduced to one lane
between Old Sauk Road in Madison and Donna Drive in Middleton while
crews prepare to shift traffic off the eastbound bridge, he said. <

Eastbound traffic won't be affected next week, he said, and crews will
try to keep the on and off ramps at Highway 14/University Avenue open,
especially during the rush hours. <

"We will be doing some night work, especially demolition of the
bridges, but we're going to try not to impact commuters," Neuhauser
said. <

Beginning Jan. 26, the westbound Beltline will be restricted to one
lane from about 7 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. while workers set barriers. Later
that week, eastbound traffic will be restricted to a single lane for
several days while the pavement is marked to guide drivers to the
westbound bridge. The eastbound bridge will be demolished and rebuilt
by July. <

"There's about two weeks' worth of work to get things to where they're
going to stay for the next five or six months," Neuhauser said. "We're
not closing the highway down. You can get to your destination, you
just need to be a little patient and allow extra time." <

In July, traffic will be shifted to the rebuilt eastbound bridge while
the westbound bridge over University Avenue is demolished and rebuilt,
he said. Commuters will still have two westbound lanes and one
eastbound lane. <

"The reason we chose two lanes for westbound traffic is because it
empties into a lot of interchanges," Neuhauser said. "We want to clear
the route heading out of the city." <

This $25 million portion of the roughly $100 million Highway 12 bypass
project includes building 14 new bridges and two full interchanges. It
also includes rebuilding the Highway 14/University Avenue interchange
where the bypass will connect to the existing Beltline, Neuhauser
said. <

Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps. <

"We don't promote using the local road system, but people should know
where the routes are," Neuhauser said. <

Long-term planning for the bypass has allowed Middleton to prepare for
spillover traffic, said Middleton City Engineer Shawn Stauske. <

"The city is expecting it will pick up destination traffic for west
Madison and Middleton businesses, but we're set up to handle it," he
said. <

But Middleton businesses along the existing Highway 12 corridor just
north of the bridge reconstruction project are bracing for the impact.
<

Tom Trotta, owner of the Colonial Motel at 3001 West Beltline Highway,
said he's not sure state officials realize how much congestion the
area already suffers, despite 14 years of discussion. <

"Even with the road the way it is now, the back-up at rush hour is
pretty significant," Trotta said. "There are going to be
fender-benders like crazy because there won't be any shoulder to the
road. Still, we're going to encourage all of our customers to not
disregard us for the next year." <

In addition to the bypass around Middleton, the project will
straighten and widen the existing 18 miles of Highway 12 between
Middleton and Sauk City to a four-lane divided highway and
rehabilitate and widen the bridge over the Wisconsin River at Sauk
City. </article>

There is an good aerial photo in the newspaper showing the grading
that has been done to date. This project will connect the Middleton
Bypass to the existing Beltline. Stay away from the Beltline in
Middleton as it is going to be a mess in the coming year. That's
going to be one heck of a curve coming off the US 14/University Avenue
bridge.

Bob S
Jon Enslin
2004-01-16 15:36:23 UTC
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Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.

If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.

Jon
--
"It seems all you can do is step on our collective joy whenever Canada
achieves a milestone in sports." - rob
Michael G. Koerner
2004-01-16 17:09:03 UTC
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Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.
Where else WOULD they go? Too bad the University/Campus/Johnson
corridor can't really be upgraded much beyond what it is now.

If only those darns LAKES weren't in the way.... ;-)

Can you envision further upgrades to US 14 west of the beltline, perhaps
including related Beltline interchange upgrades, within the next couple
of decades? I do remember a drive on the Beltline in about 1983 where
the north-south part north of Mineral Point Rd was still a rural
two-lane surface highway, so things have been happening fairly quickly
in that area.

I also noted that the news item on the WisDOT website said that this
part of US 12 is being funded 100% with bonding. Is this part of
Doyle's budgeting hocus-pocus?
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Jon Enslin
2004-01-16 19:30:51 UTC
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Post by Michael G. Koerner
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.
Where else WOULD they go? Too bad the University/Campus/Johnson
corridor can't really be upgraded much beyond what it is now.
If only those darns LAKES weren't in the way.... ;-)
Can you envision further upgrades to US 14 west of the beltline, perhaps
including related Beltline interchange upgrades, within the next couple
of decades? I do remember a drive on the Beltline in about 1983 where
the north-south part north of Mineral Point Rd was still a rural
two-lane surface highway, so things have been happening fairly quickly
in that area.
I also noted that the news item on the WisDOT website said that this
part of US 12 is being funded 100% with bonding. Is this part of
Doyle's budgeting hocus-pocus?
Is that rare? Most of the state's capital projects are bonded and the
bonds are paid back with revenue. It is that way will almost all
building construction. I would assume it's not that different with road
projects of this magnitude.
--
"It seems all you can do is step on our collective joy whenever Canada
achieves a milestone in sports." - rob
Dan Hartung
2004-01-17 06:56:43 UTC
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Post by Michael G. Koerner
If only those darns LAKES weren't in the way.... ;-)
Two words: ice bridge. So now we know why they're starting in midwinter!

Exit for downtown at Lady Liberty, natch.
Bill Bleckwenn
2004-01-19 21:44:50 UTC
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Post by Michael G. Koerner
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.
The only all four-lane option (traveling south into Middleton) is
turning east from US 12 onto Century Avenue (CTH M) to Allen Blvd (CTH
Q) to University Avenue (CTH MS) to Midvale Boulevard. This is
composed of four-lane divided and undivided streets. The backups will
most likely start north of there, and about the only route would be to
take CTH K east at Ashton Corners to CTH Q, and turn south into
Middleton. This route is two lanes to CTH M however.

Maybe some good will come of the resulting backups, and need for the
North Beltine/Mendota Parkway will become apparent.....
Post by Michael G. Koerner
Where else WOULD they go? Too bad the University/Campus/Johnson
corridor can't really be upgraded much beyond what it is now.
If only those darns LAKES weren't in the way.... ;-)
Can you envision further upgrades to US 14 west of the beltline, perhaps
including related Beltline interchange upgrades, within the next couple
of decades? I do remember a drive on the Beltline in about 1983 where
the north-south part north of Mineral Point Rd was still a rural
two-lane surface highway, so things have been happening fairly quickly
in that area.
Expansion of US 14 to Cross Plains is indicated in the map of proposed
and Legislatively-approved projects in the Corridors 2020 book. IMO,
US 14 should be expanded to Spring Green, if not Richland Center.
Post by Michael G. Koerner
I also noted that the news item on the WisDOT website said that this
part of US 12 is being funded 100% with bonding. Is this part of
Doyle's budgeting hocus-pocus?
David Jensen
2004-01-17 14:18:30 UTC
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On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
They're talking about NW of Middleton. US 14 to WI 78 is a long way out
of the way to get to Sauk County. Within Middleton, there are lots of
streets that can be used as alternatives, they're just not particularly
adequate.
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Post by Jon Enslin
If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.
Just wait till they're rebuilding E Washington Ave (US 151) over the
rest of the decade. Speaking of roads with no viable alternate routes...
Dan Hartung
2004-01-17 22:08:24 UTC
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Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Not to mention halting light rail efforts.
http://www.transport2020.net/Corridor.htm

I said halting:
http://www.danerail.org/new.php

And a bike ferry:
http://www.madison.com/captimes/news/local/22269.php

(If they can do that, why not consider a commuter ferry?)
David Jensen
2004-01-18 04:13:09 UTC
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:08:24 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Dan Hartung
Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Not to mention halting light rail efforts.
http://www.transport2020.net/Corridor.htm
http://www.danerail.org/new.php
http://www.madison.com/captimes/news/local/22269.php
(If they can do that, why not consider a commuter ferry?)
Commuter rail and bike ferries are wonderful and we will accept the
largess of the nation to build them. Please don't expect us to pay for
them ourselves.

I believe that is the attitude of the rest of America, so it's nice not
to be out of step for a change.
Jon Enslin
2004-01-18 19:39:00 UTC
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Post by David Jensen
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:08:24 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Dan Hartung
Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing
issues with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one
basket, the Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Not to mention halting light rail efforts.
http://www.transport2020.net/Corridor.htm
http://www.danerail.org/new.php
http://www.madison.com/captimes/news/local/22269.php
(If they can do that, why not consider a commuter ferry?)
Commuter rail and bike ferries are wonderful and we will accept the
largess of the nation to build them. Please don't expect us to pay for
them ourselves.
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.

Jon
Craig Holl
2004-01-18 21:31:43 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by David Jensen
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:08:24 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Dan Hartung
Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing
issues with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one
basket, the Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Not to mention halting light rail efforts.
http://www.transport2020.net/Corridor.htm
http://www.danerail.org/new.php
http://www.madison.com/captimes/news/local/22269.php
(If they can do that, why not consider a commuter ferry?)
Commuter rail and bike ferries are wonderful and we will accept the
largess of the nation to build them. Please don't expect us to pay
for them ourselves.
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Well, since Madison is generally pretty liberal, will that mean that the residents
will actually use the mass transit they promote? You would think that a city like
Madison would be able to generate a higher fare/cost ratio for mass transit than
many other similarly-sized cities.

--
Craig Holl
Mechanical Engineer; New Berlin, WI
www.midwestroads.com
*remove all numbers and caps to reply*
David Jensen
2004-01-19 01:32:47 UTC
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Raw Message
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 21:31:43 GMT, in misc.transport.road
Post by Craig Holl
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by David Jensen
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:08:24 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Dan Hartung
Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing
issues with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one
basket, the Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Not to mention halting light rail efforts.
http://www.transport2020.net/Corridor.htm
http://www.danerail.org/new.php
http://www.madison.com/captimes/news/local/22269.php
(If they can do that, why not consider a commuter ferry?)
Commuter rail and bike ferries are wonderful and we will accept the
largess of the nation to build them. Please don't expect us to pay
for them ourselves.
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Well, since Madison is generally pretty liberal, will that mean that the residents
will actually use the mass transit they promote? You would think that a city like
Madison would be able to generate a higher fare/cost ratio for mass transit than
many other similarly-sized cities.
Off-the-top-of-my-head answer, based on vague memory:

Madison has more riders than comparable cities (say Lincoln and Des
Moines), but spends much more on a more comprehensive bus system to have
those riders. If the UW campus decided to provide enough parking to meet
market demand, I wouldn't be surprised if 10% of all rides disappeared.

We'd like to thank the folks of Waukesha, Washington and Ozaukee
Counties for not having decent transit systems, so we don't have to
compete with them, too, for state funds.
Bob S
2004-01-19 15:58:43 UTC
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Post by Craig Holl
<snip>
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Laughable or not, Mayor C. is pushing light rail.
Post by Craig Holl
Well, since Madison is generally pretty liberal, will that mean that the
residents will actually use the mass transit they promote? You would think > that a city like Madison would be able to generate a higher fare/cost ratio > for mass transit than many other similarly-sized cities.
Maybe after you tear their dead liberal fingers off the steering
wheels of their SUVs. For me, it is practicality. Traveling one way,
I would spend an hour and 15 minutes taking a bus for what I can drive
in 20-25 minutes. I have taken the bus when my car has been in the
shop. My observation is that the other riders appeared to be mainly
university students and lower income people. I didn't see any obvious
corporate executives or other suits. Madison does have a decent
ridership though.

However, for a Badger football game, the bus can't be beat. It goes
to show that at some point the bus becomes a better deal when
congestion, parking and hassle come into play.

Former Mayor Soglin tried this in the 70's when the city removed
on-street parking from State Street and the Capitol Square, thus
"encouraging" people to use mass transit or else use parking ramps.
All it did was kill downtown business and push it out to the malls at
the edges of town who were most happy to accommodate with plenty of
parking. It was explained to me once that most people prefer to be
able to park within visual sight of their destination or they will go
somewhere else where they can.

Bob S
Bill Bleckwenn
2004-01-19 21:11:17 UTC
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Post by Bob S
Post by Craig Holl
<snip>
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Laughable or not, Mayor C. is pushing light rail.
When I was in Madison in December, it seemed as though the focus of
discussion was on commuter rail and not a light rail system. Maybe I
just caught a snippet of current events. Commuter rail is typically
much less expensive than light rail to construct since it can use
existing rail lines. I was still impressed that it was considered to
be economically viable for a city Madison's size.

In the Twin Cities last week, Governor Pawlenty announced his
promotion of a commuter rail line from Big Lake (between St. Cloud and
the Cities) and Minneapolis, much to the outrage of other Republicans
within the state capitol. He has accelerated funding for many capacity
expansion projects on the metro freeway system through bonding also in
the last year.
Post by Bob S
Post by Craig Holl
Well, since Madison is generally pretty liberal, will that mean that the
residents will actually use the mass transit they promote? You would think > that a city like Madison would be able to generate a higher fare/cost ratio > for mass transit than many other similarly-sized cities.
Maybe after you tear their dead liberal fingers off the steering
wheels of their SUVs. For me, it is practicality. Traveling one way,
I would spend an hour and 15 minutes taking a bus for what I can drive
in 20-25 minutes. I have taken the bus when my car has been in the
shop. My observation is that the other riders appeared to be mainly
university students and lower income people. I didn't see any obvious
corporate executives or other suits. Madison does have a decent
ridership though.
However, for a Badger football game, the bus can't be beat. It goes
to show that at some point the bus becomes a better deal when
congestion, parking and hassle come into play.
Former Mayor Soglin tried this in the 70's when the city removed
on-street parking from State Street and the Capitol Square, thus
"encouraging" people to use mass transit or else use parking ramps.
All it did was kill downtown business and push it out to the malls at
the edges of town who were most happy to accommodate with plenty of
parking. It was explained to me once that most people prefer to be
able to park within visual sight of their destination or they will go
somewhere else where they can.
Bob S
Froggie
2004-01-20 02:43:38 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bill Bleckwenn
In the Twin Cities last week, Governor Pawlenty announced his
promotion of a commuter rail line from Big Lake (between St. Cloud and
the Cities) and Minneapolis, much to the outrage of other Republicans
within the state capitol.
I noticed that....the Lt. Governer (who's also MnDOT's commissioner) not being
at the press conference was a sure sign...
Post by Bill Bleckwenn
He has accelerated funding for many capacity expansion projects on the
metro freeway system through bonding also in the last year.
I wouldn't call it "many". More like a "few". The only ones on the list in the
metro are the new US 212 freeway, widening part of I-494, and upgrading the
I-35E/I-694 duplex.

Froggie | Virginia Beach, VA | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Bill Bleckwenn
2004-01-19 21:15:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob S
Post by Craig Holl
<snip>
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Laughable or not, Mayor C. is pushing light rail.
Post by Craig Holl
Well, since Madison is generally pretty liberal, will that mean that the
residents will actually use the mass transit they promote? You would think > that a city like Madison would be able to generate a higher fare/cost ratio > for mass transit than many other similarly-sized cities.
Maybe after you tear their dead liberal fingers off the steering
wheels of their SUVs. For me, it is practicality. Traveling one way,
I would spend an hour and 15 minutes taking a bus for what I can drive
in 20-25 minutes. I have taken the bus when my car has been in the
shop. My observation is that the other riders appeared to be mainly
university students and lower income people. I didn't see any obvious
corporate executives or other suits. Madison does have a decent
ridership though.
However, for a Badger football game, the bus can't be beat. It goes
to show that at some point the bus becomes a better deal when
congestion, parking and hassle come into play.
Former Mayor Soglin tried this in the 70's when the city removed
on-street parking from State Street and the Capitol Square, thus
"encouraging" people to use mass transit or else use parking ramps.
All it did was kill downtown business and push it out to the malls at
the edges of town who were most happy to accommodate with plenty of
parking. It was explained to me once that most people prefer to be
able to park within visual sight of their destination or they will go
somewhere else where they can.
Bob S
I agree that the "Capitol Concourse" and State Street Mall projects
had mixed results. The State Street Mall has worked well. However,
the Capitol Concourse design, removing parking from the Square, was
the second to the last nail on the coffin of the Capitol Square retail
community (the sensationalistic Madison media provided the final nail
by playing up the "high crime rate" around the Square).
Chris Bessert
2004-01-19 03:28:32 UTC
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Post by Jon Enslin
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Indeed, here in Grand Rapids, Michigan, there is a small faction that
thinks we need to limit our 5-1/2 minute long rush "hour" every day
by constructing a light rail line. We have an excellent bus system
that has seen major improvements over the last several years and a
new transit millage just passed for even more improvements. Ridership
has also been increasing as well.

So, if light rail won't fly in Grand Rapids, I can't see it happening
in Madison, even if Madison is more "liberal" than Grand Rapids. Popu-
lationwise, Madison and Grand Rapids have about the same number of
residents within the city limits, but the MSA population in G.R. is
much greater (nearly 3x), in part because of the proximity of Holland
and Muskegon, but also because the suburban area around Grand Rapids
is much larger than at Madison.

Madison: 208,000 / MSA 443,000
Grand Rapids: 200,000 / MSA 1,114,965

Just my two cents...

Later,
Chris
--
Chris Bessert
***@aol.com
http://www.michiganhighways.org
http://www.wisconsinhighways.org
http://www.ontariohighways.org
Bill Bleckwenn
2004-01-19 21:34:19 UTC
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Post by Chris Bessert
Post by Jon Enslin
Bingo. The idea that light rail or a bike ferry would be economically
feasible in Madison is laughable.
Indeed, here in Grand Rapids, Michigan, there is a small faction that
thinks we need to limit our 5-1/2 minute long rush "hour" every day
by constructing a light rail line. We have an excellent bus system
that has seen major improvements over the last several years and a
new transit millage just passed for even more improvements. Ridership
has also been increasing as well.
So, if light rail won't fly in Grand Rapids, I can't see it happening
in Madison, even if Madison is more "liberal" than Grand Rapids. Popu-
lationwise, Madison and Grand Rapids have about the same number of
residents within the city limits, but the MSA population in G.R. is
much greater (nearly 3x), in part because of the proximity of Holland
and Muskegon, but also because the suburban area around Grand Rapids
is much larger than at Madison.
Madison: 208,000 / MSA 443,000
Grand Rapids: 200,000 / MSA 1,114,965
Just my two cents...
Later,
Chris
My apologies for nit-picking, but the Census Bureau just expanded the
Madison metro area MSA, and has combined it with the new Baraboo MSA
to create a CSA metro area of 557,000 (2000 Census) or 580,000 (2003
estimate). The Wisconsin Dept. of Administration, also adds portions
of Green and Rock counties to the metro area pushing it over 600,000.
This inclusion of all of these counties has been long overdue.

Regardless, I too question the viability of commuter rail or LRT in
Madison, even if it is a more compact metro area (than Grand Rapids),
and has a good record of utilizing public transit.
Bob S
2004-01-18 04:23:58 UTC
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Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
They're talking about NW of Middleton. US 14 to WI 78 is a long way out
of the way to get to Sauk County. Within Middleton, there are lots of
streets that can be used as alternatives, they're just not particularly
adequate.
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Post by Jon Enslin
If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.
Just wait till they're rebuilding E Washington Ave (US 151) over the
rest of the decade. Speaking of roads with no viable alternate routes...
Actually, there is WI 30/Aberg Ave/Packers/Johnson/Gorham and
Winnebago/Williamson/Wilson. However, the capacity of these routes is
another issue. The real tough section of E. Wash will be from US 51
to Thierer Road.

Bob S
m***@gmail.com
2017-03-11 21:04:50 UTC
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Post by Bob S
Post by David Jensen
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:36:23 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
(snip)
Post by Bob S
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps.
They're talking about NW of Middleton. US 14 to WI 78 is a long way out
of the way to get to Sauk County. Within Middleton, there are lots of
streets that can be used as alternatives, they're just not particularly
adequate.
Post by Jon Enslin
This is one part where they are right on. One of the ongoing issues
with Madison is that they have all their eggs in one basket, the
Beltline, when it comes to transportation.
Don't forget the millions that taxpayers pour into buses.
Post by Jon Enslin
If this part of the Beltline, all viable alternatives run though
residential neighborhoods and are two lane roads. The only exception
may be Midvale Boulevard, which is significantly east of this part of
the highway.
Just wait till they're rebuilding E Washington Ave (US 151) over the
rest of the decade. Speaking of roads with no viable alternate routes...
Actually, there is WI 30/Aberg Ave/Packers/Johnson/Gorham and
Winnebago/Williamson/Wilson. However, the capacity of these routes is
another issue. The real tough section of E. Wash will be from US 51
to Thierer Road.
Bob S
m***@gmail.com
2017-03-11 21:05:08 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob S
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/65376.php
Launching a highway project that reroutes traffic in mid-winter is
rare. <
But that's just what the state Department of Transportation is doing
to limit how long nearly 25,000 commuters who travel between Madison
and Sauk City on Highway 12 will have to deal with construction
delays. <
The Highway 12 project's newest phase - involving reconstruction of
bridges that carry traffic over University Avenue in Middleton - is
expected to be completed by late fall 2005, according to state
Department of Transportation project manager Curt Neuhauser. <
"If we get a lot of snow, this could all be pushed back," Neuhauser
said. "There's a lot of work to be done and we want to get it finished
this year, so we have to get a head start." <
Starting Monday, the westbound Beltline will be reduced to one lane
between Old Sauk Road in Madison and Donna Drive in Middleton while
crews prepare to shift traffic off the eastbound bridge, he said. <
Eastbound traffic won't be affected next week, he said, and crews will
try to keep the on and off ramps at Highway 14/University Avenue open,
especially during the rush hours. <
"We will be doing some night work, especially demolition of the
bridges, but we're going to try not to impact commuters," Neuhauser
said. <
Beginning Jan. 26, the westbound Beltline will be restricted to one
lane from about 7 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. while workers set barriers. Later
that week, eastbound traffic will be restricted to a single lane for
several days while the pavement is marked to guide drivers to the
westbound bridge. The eastbound bridge will be demolished and rebuilt
by July. <
"There's about two weeks' worth of work to get things to where they're
going to stay for the next five or six months," Neuhauser said. "We're
not closing the highway down. You can get to your destination, you
just need to be a little patient and allow extra time." <
In July, traffic will be shifted to the rebuilt eastbound bridge while
the westbound bridge over University Avenue is demolished and rebuilt,
he said. Commuters will still have two westbound lanes and one
eastbound lane. <
"The reason we chose two lanes for westbound traffic is because it
empties into a lot of interchanges," Neuhauser said. "We want to clear
the route heading out of the city." <
This $25 million portion of the roughly $100 million Highway 12 bypass
project includes building 14 new bridges and two full interchanges. It
also includes rebuilding the Highway 14/University Avenue interchange
where the bypass will connect to the existing Beltline, Neuhauser
said. <
Highway 12 doesn't have viable alternative routes, he said, but the
Department of Transportation is establishing a Web site where
commuters can check for updates and maps. <
"We don't promote using the local road system, but people should know
where the routes are," Neuhauser said. <
Long-term planning for the bypass has allowed Middleton to prepare for
spillover traffic, said Middleton City Engineer Shawn Stauske. <
"The city is expecting it will pick up destination traffic for west
Madison and Middleton businesses, but we're set up to handle it," he
said. <
But Middleton businesses along the existing Highway 12 corridor just
north of the bridge reconstruction project are bracing for the impact.
<
Tom Trotta, owner of the Colonial Motel at 3001 West Beltline Highway,
said he's not sure state officials realize how much congestion the
area already suffers, despite 14 years of discussion. <
"Even with the road the way it is now, the back-up at rush hour is
pretty significant," Trotta said. "There are going to be
fender-benders like crazy because there won't be any shoulder to the
road. Still, we're going to encourage all of our customers to not
disregard us for the next year." <
In addition to the bypass around Middleton, the project will
straighten and widen the existing 18 miles of Highway 12 between
Middleton and Sauk City to a four-lane divided highway and
rehabilitate and widen the bridge over the Wisconsin River at Sauk
City. </article>
There is an good aerial photo in the newspaper showing the grading
that has been done to date. This project will connect the Middleton
Bypass to the existing Beltline. Stay away from the Beltline in
Middleton as it is going to be a mess in the coming year. That's
going to be one heck of a curve coming off the US 14/University Avenue
bridge.
Bob S
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