Discussion:
Most remote places in each state?
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Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
2005-06-03 04:13:33 UTC
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Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?

The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.

For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.

There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.

For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.

For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.

For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).

Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.

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The Chief Instigator
2005-06-03 05:07:18 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
The Dry Tortugas, I take it?
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
Sounds like the Chandeleurs, to me.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
From looking at the RMcN, I'd have to agree.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
In Texas, I suspect that it'd be out near the Big Bend - Sanderson's 50-odd
miles from Marathon and 60-plus from Fort Stockton, though there are a couple
of unincorporated villages along the 65 miles east towards Langtry. For the
most remote spot, somewhere down between Yellow House Peak, Pine Mountain, and
Dove Mountain, northeast of the Big Bend National Park in Brewster County...
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Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
2005-06-03 05:31:04 UTC
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Post by The Chief Instigator
The Dry Tortugas, I take it?
I'm looking at one map that shows Dry Tortugas National Park on an island 12
miles west of Key West. It also marks a spot in the ocean just north of the
islands 65 miles west of Key West as Dry Tortugas.

The islands 65 miles west of Key West has Fort Jefferson National Monument
and stuff.
Post by The Chief Instigator
Sounds like the Chandeleurs, to me.
It's the island (or group of islands) that has Breton N.W.R.

Also, I read a book that gave me the impression that the area around the
mouth of the Mississippi River isn't clearly definable as land, water, or
swamp. Even the topographic map is kind of unclear in that regard.

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Justin Priola
2005-06-03 18:58:51 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Post by The Chief Instigator
The Dry Tortugas, I take it?
I'm looking at one map that shows Dry Tortugas National Park on an island 12
miles west of Key West. It also marks a spot in the ocean just north of the
islands 65 miles west of Key West as Dry Tortugas.
The islands 65 miles west of Key West has Fort Jefferson National Monument
and stuff.
Post by The Chief Instigator
Sounds like the Chandeleurs, to me.
It's the island (or group of islands) that has Breton N.W.R.
The Chandeleurs are just barely islands now - Ivan reduced them to
little more than sandbars rising out of the Gulf.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Also, I read a book that gave me the impression that the area around the
mouth of the Mississippi River isn't clearly definable as land, water, or
swamp. Even the topographic map is kind of unclear in that regard.
Most of it is submerged muck, I imagine. Coastal erosion has
eliminated most of the identifiable marshland down there, and this is
constantly occurring, so there is now water where the maps might show
land.

As for remote Louisiana locations not offshore, some parts of the
Atchfalaya River basin are at least 10 miles from any road and
completely devoid of people. The same goes for southern Concordia
Parish.

Justin Priola
The Chief Instigator
2005-06-06 01:19:01 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Post by The Chief Instigator
The Dry Tortugas, I take it?
I'm looking at one map that shows Dry Tortugas National Park on an island 12
miles west of Key West. It also marks a spot in the ocean just north of the
islands 65 miles west of Key West as Dry Tortugas.
The islands 65 miles west of Key West has Fort Jefferson National Monument
and stuff.
That's marked as Dry Tortugas NP on Google's beta maps, while the larger
island abour 25 miles west of Key West is unmarked, by name or detail.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Post by The Chief Instigator
Sounds like the Chandeleurs, to me.
It's the island (or group of islands) that has Breton N.W.R.
That's what's left of the Chandeleurs after Ivan whacked them last year.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Also, I read a book that gave me the impression that the area around the
mouth of the Mississippi River isn't clearly definable as land, water, or
swamp. Even the topographic map is kind of unclear in that regard.
That's no surprise, as the Big Muddy keeps dumping its output, while storms
come through and wash some of that output into the Gulf faster than the
Mississippi can pile it up over the centuries. (The whole Gulf seabed is
underlined with shale, some 20,000 feet below sea level - and at least 9000
below the deepest point in the Gulf - and it's slowly dropping even farther as
the Mississippi dumps more dirt into it, which is slowly pulling the coasts in
Texas and Louisiana down, at the rate of three or four feet in a century...not
good news for places like the upper Texas coast, where five million people
live within 60 miles of the current shoreline.)
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Pete Jenior
2005-06-06 21:35:35 UTC
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Post by The Chief Instigator
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Post by The Chief Instigator
The Dry Tortugas, I take it?
I'm looking at one map that shows Dry Tortugas National Park on an island 12
miles west of Key West. It also marks a spot in the ocean just north of the
islands 65 miles west of Key West as Dry Tortugas.
The islands 65 miles west of Key West has Fort Jefferson National Monument
and stuff.
That's marked as Dry Tortugas NP on Google's beta maps, while the larger
island abour 25 miles west of Key West is unmarked, by name or detail.
When I was in Key West, there were tourboats that went over to Dry Tortugas.
I think that something in the middle of the Everglades, miles from any road,
is *much* more remote.

-Pete
Scott M. Kozel
2005-06-03 11:03:31 UTC
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Post by The Chief Instigator
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
The Dry Tortugas, I take it?
In Virginia, Tangier Island is located in Chesapeake Bay. "No cars, no
trains; the only transportation to Tangier Island is by boat or by small
airplane".

http://www.tangierisland-va.com/

Lake Drummond in the Dismal Swamp is also quite remote. The only public
access to the shore of the lake is via foot or bicycle, on the
4.5-mile-long Washington Ditch Trail.
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2005-06-05 18:46:52 UTC
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Post by Scott M. Kozel
Lake Drummond in the Dismal Swamp is also quite remote. The only public
access to the shore of the lake is via foot or bicycle, on the
4.5-mile-long Washington Ditch Trail.
I'm not sure if they've changed things since October 2004 but there was
daytime car access to Lake Drummond via a gated road (Railroad Ditch).
You had to sign in/out at the headquarters and they'd give you the
combo to the gate.
Michael G. Koerner
2005-06-03 14:50:16 UTC
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Isn't there a Catholic monastary in New Mexico that can only be gotten
to via a 20-25 km long pack trail?
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Pat O'Connell
2005-06-05 03:42:00 UTC
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Post by Michael G. Koerner
Isn't there a Catholic monastary in New Mexico that can only be gotten
to via a 20-25 km long pack trail?
IIRC it's on a jeep road.
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Pete Jenior
2005-06-04 04:06:03 UTC
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Post by The Chief Instigator
In Texas, I suspect that it'd be out near the Big Bend - Sanderson's 50-odd
miles from Marathon and 60-plus from Fort Stockton, though there are a couple
of unincorporated villages along the 65 miles east towards Langtry. For the
most remote spot, somewhere down between Yellow House Peak, Pine Mountain, and
Dove Mountain, northeast of the Big Bend National Park in Brewster County...
I went to Big Bend NP about 6 months ago. It is one of the most remote
places I'd even been to period. It was 70 miles from the park to the first
town (Marathon), and there wasn't much between there and Ft. Stockton, which
is probably at least 100 miles more...

-Pete
MC Pee Pants
2005-06-03 05:39:40 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
In Arkansas, it would probably be either the Big Island area (the area near
the mouth of the Arkansas River), near the proposed I-69 bridge, or
somewhere in the mountain regions. Secluded mountainous areas would include
parts of Madison, Newton, Johnson and Pope Counties in the Ozarks, and parts
Yell and Perry Counties in the Ouachitas. Southwestern Polk County is also
very secluded.

In Oklahoma, parts of eastern Pushmataha County and northwestern McCurtain
County are quiet secluded. Not sure about western Oklahoma.
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Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
2005-06-03 14:02:24 UTC
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Post by MC Pee Pants
In Oklahoma, parts of eastern Pushmataha County and northwestern McCurtain
County are quiet secluded. Not sure about western Oklahoma.
There's this one sort of badlands-type area between Enid and Woodward.

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MC Pee Pants
2005-06-03 15:53:46 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Post by MC Pee Pants
In Oklahoma, parts of eastern Pushmataha County and northwestern McCurtain
County are quiet secluded. Not sure about western Oklahoma.
There's this one sort of badlands-type area between Enid and Woodward.
Little Sahara?
--
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Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
2005-06-03 17:16:45 UTC
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Post by MC Pee Pants
Little Sahara?
I think it was Gloss Mountain.

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The Chief Instigator
2005-06-04 06:29:49 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Post by MC Pee Pants
Little Sahara?
I think it was Gloss Mountain.
Close - Glass Mountain.
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Andrew Tompkins
2005-06-03 22:34:50 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
Plenty of remote places in Oregon:

Pick a volcanic peak, any volcanic peak will do.

Also, some places in the Wallowa Mts in NE Oregon get pretty off the beaten path.

The middle Owyhee River basin and canyons (SE Oregon) are pretty well out in the
sticks.

Hell's Canyon doesn't see too many people (the places that are accessible near the
river get their mail by boat).

And, of course, there is a boatload and a half of wilderness areas in the various
mountain ranges.

--Andy
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Software Engineer
Beaverton, OR
http://home.comcast.net/~andytom/Highways
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Michael Gronseth
2005-06-03 06:00:11 UTC
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For Michigan, it's an easy choice: Isle Royale National Park.

Michael P. Gronseth
Negaunee, MI
Archie Leach
2005-06-04 01:41:03 UTC
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On 2 Jun 2005 23:00:11 -0700, in misc.transport.road "Michael
Post by Michael Gronseth
For Michigan, it's an easy choice: Isle Royale National Park.
Is Isle Royale closer to Thunder Bay, ON, than Beaver Island is to the
mainland of either Wisconsin or Michigan??
Rothman
2005-06-04 02:37:51 UTC
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Post by Archie Leach
On 2 Jun 2005 23:00:11 -0700, in misc.transport.road "Michael
Post by Michael Gronseth
For Michigan, it's an easy choice: Isle Royale National Park.
Is Isle Royale closer to Thunder Bay, ON, than Beaver Island is to the
mainland of either Wisconsin or Michigan??
Beaver Island at least has a strange Mormon/Strangeite history, I believe.
Michael Gronseth
2005-06-04 18:58:22 UTC
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Isle Royale is about the same distance from Houghton as the width of
Lake Michigan between the UP and LP across the Beaver Island group. The
OP was discussing distance and remoteness from the rest of the state,
so it's distance to Thunder Bay, ON is not relevant to this discussion.

Remember too, that Beaver Island is accessible from Charlevoix by
ferry. While Charlevoix is a little ways away from the freeway network
of the LP of MI, it's at most an hour or so drive from I-75. Houghton
and Copper Harbor are probably 6 hours from I-75, I-43 or I-35 in the
UP, WI or MN respectively. This means that the Copper Country is remote
on the mainland of Michigan in the first place, making any island that
relies on those locations for a ferry connection even more remote as
well.

-Michael P. Gronseth
Negaunee, MI
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2005-06-05 22:12:16 UTC
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Post by Michael Gronseth
Isle Royale is about the same distance from Houghton as the width of
Lake Michigan between the UP and LP across the Beaver Island group. The
OP was discussing distance and remoteness from the rest of the state,
so it's distance to Thunder Bay, ON is not relevant to this discussion.
Remember too, that Beaver Island is accessible from Charlevoix by
ferry. While Charlevoix is a little ways away from the freeway network
of the LP of MI, it's at most an hour or so drive from I-75. Houghton
and Copper Harbor are probably 6 hours from I-75, I-43 or I-35 in the
UP, WI or MN respectively. This means that the Copper Country is remote
on the mainland of Michigan in the first place, making any island that
relies on those locations for a ferry connection even more remote as
well.
-Michael P. Gronseth
Negaunee, MI
Actually, I believe Isle Royale is closer to Grand Portage, MN then it
is to anywhere in MI. I took the boat over there from MN. It was a
fun ride going over there but coming back, I could not wait until it
was OVER.
John Lansford
2005-06-03 09:29:00 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
In NC it is the island in the NE part of the state that is only
reached by either a ferry or by driving into Virginia.

John Lansford, PE
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Monte Castleman
2005-06-03 11:06:29 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
A few candidates for Minnesota:
The Northwest Angle- remote because you can only get to it by boat, or
through Canada, although there are a few people that live there. There are
several islands off in Lake of the Woods, some with no residents.

The Boundary Waters Canoe Area: No-one has lived within the boundaries since
1987, although there are plenty of visitors in the summer. The area would
have been quite different had a railroad been built across it, hydroelectric
dams were built, and a road built to every lake, which were all originally
proposed. As it turned out, the only roads built were the Echo Trail, and
part of the Ely-Gunflint route, the Fernberg Trail. (The Ely-Gunflint
route at least was going to become a trunk highway.) The areas remoteness
kept it from being developed until 20th century conservationalists stepped
in.

The peat bogs: vast areas of north-central Minnesota have no residents, and
no roads. There were attempts to homestead the area in the early part of the
last century, but the soil is too poor to make a living growing crops, and
too far from the cities and too few lakes to make a living serving tourism.
The Depression put a stop to the few farmers who were just getting by- farms
and the roads serving them were abandoned en masse.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
Grand Marias is 60 miles from the nearest other incorporated town of Silver
Bay, although there's a steady stream of developement between them. There
are several towns on the peat bogs that have nothing for miles around.
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John A. Weeks III
2005-06-03 12:00:39 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
In Illinois, there are a few candidates. One is the area between
the Mississippi River and the Illinois River north of St Louis.
There is no road leading out of the south of this long finger
of land between the rivers. It is only sparsely populated,
and there is almost no traffic in or out.

Another is the land up by the former Savanna Army Depot.
That is a former nuclear weapons stockpile. The entire
area along the river has very little for roads, and what
roads are there are not marked, and few are even paved.

A third candidate is the area near where the Mississippi
River meets the Ohio River. The area for miles north of
there is nothing other than snake-infested swamps. Once
you get off of the very few roads that go through the
area, it is virtually uninhabited.

-john-
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Sam West
2005-06-03 18:20:30 UTC
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I would also think the Kaskaskia island would be a good candidate for
remote Illinois. When I went there, there was only a black and white
dog to greet me. Apart from the two or three trailer homes in "town,"
the rest of the area (corn) is cut off from the rest of Illinois and
you have to enter via Missouri and you go over a series of dikes. No
traffic there, either.

www.wrx900.com
Post by John A. Weeks III
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
In Illinois, there are a few candidates. One is the area between
the Mississippi River and the Illinois River north of St Louis.
There is no road leading out of the south of this long finger
of land between the rivers. It is only sparsely populated,
and there is almost no traffic in or out.
Another is the land up by the former Savanna Army Depot.
That is a former nuclear weapons stockpile. The entire
area along the river has very little for roads, and what
roads are there are not marked, and few are even paved.
A third candidate is the area near where the Mississippi
River meets the Ohio River. The area for miles north of
there is nothing other than snake-infested swamps. Once
you get off of the very few roads that go through the
area, it is virtually uninhabited.
-john-
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Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
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2015-10-15 03:19:31 UTC
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I live only 15 miles ( crow fly) from Kaskaskia. There are coal mine fields larger than kkk island. I am a stargazer and the island has a few houses evenly spaced. Places in Shawnee nat. Forest are good candidates. From other research I have done, actually north western Illinois has more remote and less populated counties.
Pete Jenior
2005-06-04 04:08:28 UTC
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Post by John A. Weeks III
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
In Illinois, there are a few candidates. One is the area between
the Mississippi River and the Illinois River north of St Louis.
There is no road leading out of the south of this long finger
of land between the rivers. It is only sparsely populated,
and there is almost no traffic in or out.
The recent Chicago Tribute article about Illinois ferries that someone
posted here said there were 4 in that area. That doesn't sound all that
remote...
-Pete
Rick Powell
2005-06-07 05:07:23 UTC
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Calhoun County is what you're talking about. 2 Mississippi River and 2
Illinois River ferries, and a lift bridge across the Illinois River.
Not ideal access, but not bad, either. Kaskaskia island is a lot more
remote. There are very few areas of IL that do not have at least a
through gravel road within a mile or 2.

Rick Powell
IDOT District 3
Rothman
2005-06-03 12:40:07 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
Although I understand what everyone is saying about islands, I think they're
cheating. What about Massachusetts? Is it one of the many islands either
off of Cape Cod or out of Boston Harbor? Then, you look at locations in the
Eastern Berkshires (somewhere east or west of MA 8A), and you can get pretty
remote.

Seems to depend on the definition of "remote."
Michael Moroney
2005-06-03 18:39:25 UTC
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Post by Rothman
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
Although I understand what everyone is saying about islands, I think they're
cheating. What about Massachusetts? Is it one of the many islands either
off of Cape Cod or out of Boston Harbor? Then, you look at locations in the
Eastern Berkshires (somewhere east or west of MA 8A), and you can get pretty
remote.
For Massachusetts a good candidate would be "Noman's Land", an island off
of Martha's Vinyard. It was at one time used as an air-ground target by
the US Navy.

For non-island candidates, I'd have to say the southern tip of the
Prescott Peninsula in the town of New Salem (in the former town of
either Prescott or Enfield, dunno where the old boundary was). The whole
peninsula which is about 9 miles long is off-limits to the public,
surrounded by the Quabbin Reservoir on 3 sides, a large fence closing off
the fourth side. Four entire towns were disincorporated and flooded in
1938 to make the Quabbin Reservoir.

For New York it would be somewhere in the Adirondacks. There is a stretch
of NY 30 about 10 miles long where there is hardly any sign of human
activity other than the road itself. There is a place (only a couple
of houses I think) called Sabattis several miles west of there, reachable
by one of 2 roads (which join into one) off of NY 30. I guess the only
reason it even exists is there is a rail line through there. Loneliest
NY state route also runs west of NY 30 just north of the empty stretch.
NY 421 ends in the middle of nowhere, the road changes from typical NYSDOT
minor state route to a dirt road. The dirt road continues a couple miles
further to a place called Horseshoe, which is also a couple of houses on
that rail line.
--
-Mike
Mike Tantillo
2005-06-04 00:06:14 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Rothman
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
Although I understand what everyone is saying about islands, I think they're
cheating. What about Massachusetts? Is it one of the many islands either
off of Cape Cod or out of Boston Harbor? Then, you look at locations in the
Eastern Berkshires (somewhere east or west of MA 8A), and you can get pretty
remote.
For Massachusetts a good candidate would be "Noman's Land", an island off
of Martha's Vinyard. It was at one time used as an air-ground target by
the US Navy.
For non-island candidates, I'd have to say the southern tip of the
Prescott Peninsula in the town of New Salem (in the former town of
either Prescott or Enfield, dunno where the old boundary was). The whole
peninsula which is about 9 miles long is off-limits to the public,
surrounded by the Quabbin Reservoir on 3 sides, a large fence closing off
the fourth side. Four entire towns were disincorporated and flooded in
1938 to make the Quabbin Reservoir.
For New York it would be somewhere in the Adirondacks. There is a stretch
of NY 30 about 10 miles long where there is hardly any sign of human
activity other than the road itself. There is a place (only a couple
of houses I think) called Sabattis several miles west of there, reachable
by one of 2 roads (which join into one) off of NY 30. I guess the only
reason it even exists is there is a rail line through there. Loneliest
NY state route also runs west of NY 30 just north of the empty stretch.
NY 421 ends in the middle of nowhere, the road changes from typical NYSDOT
minor state route to a dirt road. The dirt road continues a couple miles
further to a place called Horseshoe, which is also a couple of houses on
that rail line.
Regarding Sabattis, there are one or more camps (one of them being a
boy scout camp) up that way as well.

I agree with you about the Adirondacks being a likely candidate, but
i'd take it a step further then just areas located off of NY 30....

The High Peaks area is bounded by NY 30, NY 3, NY 86, NY 73, US 9,
I-87, Boreas Road/Blue Ridge Road/Essex Co Rt. 2, and NY 28N. Right
smack in the center of that area can only be reached by hiking
trail....including areas such as Mt. Marcy. Mt Marcy can actually be
reached from 3 general areas: Keene, Mt. Van Hoovenburg (probably
butchered the spelling on that), which is between Lake Placid and Keene
about 4 miles off of NY 73, and from Tahawus Mine on the spur off of
Blue Ridge/Boreas/CR 2. Its a pretty darn long walk, and i'm virtually
certain that you need to spend at least one night in the woods if you
plan on enjoying yourself (otherwise, you wont have time to stay up on
Marcy).

As for the most remote part of the Adirondacks, there are quite a few
desolate areas of nothingness, the biggest of which seems to be north
of Stillwater Reservior, and south of NY 3 near Cranberry Lake.
However I don't think there is any human access to that area. The
Northville to Lake Placid trail passes through some pretty deserted
places as well.
Post by Michael Moroney
--
-Mike
Scott Kramer
2005-06-04 20:51:33 UTC
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Post by Mike Tantillo
Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
For New York it would be somewhere in the Adirondacks. There is a stretch
of NY 30 about 10 miles long where there is hardly any sign of human
activity other than the road itself. There is a place (only a couple
of houses I think) called Sabattis several miles west of there, reachable
by one of 2 roads (which join into one) off of NY 30. I guess the only
reason it even exists is there is a rail line through there. Loneliest
NY state route also runs west of NY 30 just north of the empty stretch.
NY 421 ends in the middle of nowhere, the road changes from typical NYSDOT
minor state route to a dirt road. The dirt road continues a couple miles
further to a place called Horseshoe, which is also a couple of houses on
that rail line.
Regarding Sabattis, there are one or more camps (one of them being a
boy scout camp) up that way as well.
I agree with you about the Adirondacks being a likely candidate, but
i'd take it a step further then just areas located off of NY 30....
The High Peaks area is bounded by NY 30, NY 3, NY 86, NY 73, US 9,
I-87, Boreas Road/Blue Ridge Road/Essex Co Rt. 2, and NY 28N. Right
smack in the center of that area can only be reached by hiking
trail....including areas such as Mt. Marcy. Mt Marcy can actually be
reached from 3 general areas: Keene, Mt. Van Hoovenburg (probably
butchered the spelling on that), which is between Lake Placid and Keene
about 4 miles off of NY 73, and from Tahawus Mine on the spur off of
Blue Ridge/Boreas/CR 2. Its a pretty darn long walk, and i'm virtually
certain that you need to spend at least one night in the woods if you
plan on enjoying yourself (otherwise, you wont have time to stay up on
Marcy).
Gotta disagree withyou regarding the most remote state of NY. Fishers
Island, a small (50 people +/- yr long residents, couple hundred summer
residents) would be the most remote part of the state of NY. While legally
part of the Town of Southold (as is most of the North Fork of Long Island),
you can only get to Fishers Island by taking a Ferry from New London, CT to
it. It is located about 5 miles off the coast of CT. (and about 17 miles
from Orient Point, LI).
Arrow
2005-06-04 02:19:10 UTC
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I don't know, I think that's a bit disingenuous. It depends on your
definition of "remote." You can't go to either places at all, which is
cool, but I like to think of the question being the most remote places
you're actually allowed to visit. In that case, the most remote would
probably either be the village of Cuttyhunk on an island off Falmouth,
or parts of the Taconic State Forest in Mount Washington, MA. I'd give
it to Mount Washington because people actually live in/visit Cuttyhunk.

--
Justin P.
Post by Michael Moroney
For Massachusetts a good candidate would be "Noman's Land", an island off
of Martha's Vinyard. It was at one time used as an air-ground target by
the US Navy.
For non-island candidates, I'd have to say the southern tip of the
Prescott Peninsula in the town of New Salem (in the former town of
either Prescott or Enfield, dunno where the old boundary was). The whole
peninsula which is about 9 miles long is off-limits to the public,
surrounded by the Quabbin Reservoir on 3 sides, a large fence closing off
the fourth side. Four entire towns were disincorporated and flooded in
1938 to make the Quabbin Reservoir.
James Robinson
2005-06-03 13:07:57 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
Ohio's easy: Downtown Cleveland at 2 o'clock in the morning. :)

Actually, it's West Sister Island, which is a wildlife refuge in the
middle of Lake Erie. No inhabitants, and you can only visit if you are
doing research:

http://refuges.fws.gov/profiles/index.cfm?id=31542

The rest of the state is pretty well criss-crossed by roads, so nothing
is very far from road access.
Michael G. Koerner
2005-06-03 14:58:54 UTC
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For Wisconsin, I would say Outer Island in the Apostle Islands National
Lakeshore. For places on the mainland, there are some areas in the far
northwest part of the state that are pretty lonely, too.

Chambers Island (Lake Michigan/Bay of Green Bay) is also out there.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Jon Enslin
2005-06-04 11:56:19 UTC
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Post by Michael G. Koerner
For Wisconsin, I would say Outer Island in the Apostle Islands National
Lakeshore. For places on the mainland, there are some areas in the far
northwest part of the state that are pretty lonely, too.
Chambers Island (Lake Michigan/Bay of Green Bay) is also out there.
Depending on your definition of remote, I think there are some parts of the
Chequomegon National Forest that are more remote than some of those islands.

Jon
MC Pee Pants
2005-06-03 15:53:03 UTC
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Post by James Robinson
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
Ohio's easy: Downtown Cleveland at 2 o'clock in the morning. :)
Sounds like downtown Kansas City after 5pm.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
George Grapman
2005-06-03 15:04:58 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
That would be the Farralones Islands. They are a federal wildlife
preserve and you need permits just to visit.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
--
http://www.lulu.com/content/112781 (recommended)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1411626559
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411626559
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Mr Sparkle
2005-06-03 17:27:26 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
Looks like it could be West Sister Island, OH
http://www.terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=16&Z=17&X=25&Y=361&W=3&qs=%7csandusky%7c%7c
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
--
http://www.lulu.com/content/112781 (recommended)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1411626559
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411626559
Rothman
2005-06-03 21:38:24 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
--
http://www.lulu.com/content/112781 (recommended)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1411626559
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411626559
What about Isle Royale for MI?
Tim
2005-06-04 03:59:04 UTC
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In New Hampshire, I guess the spot is the Isles Of Shoals, although there
might be some mountain top that no one climbs.
--
Tim, whose cynical nature made him want to say Nashua...

"I'm seeing a tunnel at the end of all these lights"

Travis "Why Does It Always Rain On Me?"
Pete Jenior
2005-06-04 04:12:25 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
This is a cool concept
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
California has a lot of areas that could be considered, like parts of the
Mojave Desert or rugged parts of the High Sierras that don't have any roads.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
Yes....
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
What about Kentucky Bend, or maybe one of the swampy areas over by the
Mississippi River?

-Pete
Sherman L. Cahal
2005-06-08 06:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Pete Jenior
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
Yes....
I would nominate some of the Wayne National Forest areas, especially in
south central Ohio. It is very easy to get lost in and the populations,
esp. in the Hocking Hills area, has declined greatly since the union
labor strikes of the 1970's, where a LOT of the population moved to
other mines in other states.

What about the amish areas in southern and northern Ohio?
Post by Pete Jenior
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
What about Kentucky Bend, or maybe one of the swampy areas over by the
Mississippi River?
Western Kentucky fits that bill. A mass exodous of people from that
whole part of the state it seems.
Post by Pete Jenior
-Pete
Bill Clark
2005-06-04 15:15:57 UTC
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re: definition of remote
If you multiply the (distance from the town to the nearest interstate) times
(the population of the town) it will be a measure of how desolate or far
from an interstate a town is. I can not find any big town further from an
interstate than Roswell, New Mexico.
Bill
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
--
http://www.lulu.com/content/112781 (recommended)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1411626559
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1411626559
william lynch
2005-06-04 16:28:19 UTC
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Post by Bill Clark
re: definition of remote
If you multiply the (distance from the town to the nearest interstate) times
(the population of the town) it will be a measure of how desolate or far
from an interstate a town is. I can not find any big town further from an
interstate than Roswell, New Mexico.
Bill
I'd be curious to see how that number compares with Fresno.
a***@yahoo.com.mx
2005-06-04 17:10:12 UTC
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[Mr. Lynch:]

[Distance of Roswell, N.M. from nearest Interstate]
Post by william lynch
I'd be curious to see how that number compares with Fresno.
Not even close. Roswell is perhaps 150 miles from I-40 and I-27 and
about 120 miles from I-25.
william lynch
2005-06-04 17:36:55 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by a***@yahoo.com.mx
[Mr. Lynch:]
[Distance of Roswell, N.M. from nearest Interstate]
Post by william lynch
I'd be curious to see how that number compares with Fresno.
Not even close. Roswell is perhaps 150 miles from I-40 and I-27 and
about 120 miles from I-25.
But the OP said he was using a formula that incorporated both
distance from the nearest interstate and the population of the
area. With Fresno having more than 10 times the population of
the Roswell area this shouldn't be so cut-and-dried.
Bill Clark
2005-06-04 18:04:01 UTC
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Raw Message
Roswell, pop about 45,000, is about 129 miles from Santa Rosa and I40. 5.8
Million people miles
Fresno, pop about 425,000 looks to be 51 miles from I5. 21.6 Million people
miles
Fresno is the clear winner.

Bill
Post by william lynch
Post by a***@yahoo.com.mx
[Mr. Lynch:]
[Distance of Roswell, N.M. from nearest Interstate]
Post by william lynch
I'd be curious to see how that number compares with Fresno.
Not even close. Roswell is perhaps 150 miles from I-40 and I-27 and
about 120 miles from I-25.
But the OP said he was using a formula that incorporated both
distance from the nearest interstate and the population of the
area. With Fresno having more than 10 times the population of
the Roswell area this shouldn't be so cut-and-dried.
John A. Weeks III
2005-06-06 03:00:22 UTC
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Post by Bill Clark
Roswell, pop about 45,000, is about 129 miles from Santa Rosa and I40. 5.8
Million people miles
Fresno, pop about 425,000 looks to be 51 miles from I5. 21.6 Million people
miles
Fresno is the clear winner.
Fresno doesn't count since it is on an interstate like highway,
CA-99, whereas Rosewell is nowhere near the Interstate highway
system. Rosewell is actually in the center of a huge circle
of Interstate grade highways that are all about 100 miles away.

-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 ***@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================
Dick Boyd
2005-06-05 05:45:09 UTC
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Post by william lynch
Post by a***@yahoo.com.mx
[Mr. Lynch:]
[Distance of Roswell, N.M. from nearest Interstate]
Post by william lynch
I'd be curious to see how that number compares with Fresno.
Not even close. Roswell is perhaps 150 miles from I-40 and I-27 and
about 120 miles from I-25.
But the OP said he was using a formula that incorporated both
distance from the nearest interstate and the population of the
area. With Fresno having more than 10 times the population of
the Roswell area this shouldn't be so cut-and-dried.
This definition of remote reminds me of the "center or gravity" effect
of one city on another. The product of the population of the two
places, divided by the square of the distance between the places is an
indicator of the effect one place has on the other in terms of trade,
trips generated, likely to relocate, etc.
a***@yahoo.com.mx
2005-06-05 20:22:33 UTC
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[Mr. Lynch:]
Post by william lynch
But the OP said he was using a formula that incorporated both
distance from the nearest interstate and the population of the
area. With Fresno having more than 10 times the population of
the Roswell area this shouldn't be so cut-and-dried.
I see now--but I don't think that formula actually measures
desolateness or remoteness--instead it is an index of the quality of
traffic service a town receives from the Interstate highway network.
It is reminiscent of the "hubness" measures which were discussed in
M.T.R. a couple of years ago.

I am personally not convinced we should privilege Interstate
designation in this way. What about a similar formula taking account
of distance from the nearest freeway? Nearest interurban freeway?
f***@mississippi.net
2005-06-07 08:07:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bill Clark
re: definition of remote
If you multiply the (distance from the town to the nearest interstate) times
(the population of the town) it will be a measure of how desolate or far
from an interstate a town is. I can not find any big town further from an
interstate than Roswell, New Mexico.
Not quite at the level of Roswell, but a runner-up would be Greenville,
MS, a town of similar size that is close to 90 miles from its nearest
Interstate (I-55).

At least until they get around to building I-69...:o)

How does Dothan, AL compare to Roswell? It's a lot closer to an
Interstate, but it has a much larger population.

Froggie | Underway onboard USS McInerney (FFG-8) |
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Larry Harvilla
2005-06-05 06:10:58 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
Anybody who has ever taken the "back way" through the desert between
Palm Springs, CA, and Las Vegas knows that the vast majority of that
trip is highly remote. With the questionable exception of the town of
Amboy, pretty much the entire trip from 29 Palms up to I-15 (at Nipton
Rd., about 10 miles south of the Nevada line) goes through the middle of
nowhere. The "towns" of Kelso and Cima are nothing more than
long-abandoned rail stops, and you can forget about any kind of motorist
services anywhere between 29 Palms and at least Primm, NV.

As for my home state of Michigan, a lot of people upthread have been
talking about Isle Royale National Park, the trip to which entails a
ferry ride of roughly 60 miles across Lake Superior. There are some
other lesser-known islands in the Great Lakes that I might add, such as
Manitou Island (several miles off the tip of the Keweenaw Peninsula); a
group of perhaps 20-30 islands just off the northwestern shore of
Drummond Island (north and northeast of De Tour Village); Big St. Martin
and St. Martin Islands (about 10 miles almost due north of Mackinac
Island); Summer and Little Summer Islands (just off the tip of the
Garden Peninsula in Da U.P.); and another St. Martin Island, a few miles
south-southwest of the Summer Islands (very near the Wisconsin border).

There is another clump of islands in Saginaw Bay, not far offshore from
Sebewaing and Bay Port; not far from those, Charity and Little Charity
Islands sit about 15 miles due east of Au Gres. I don't intend to make
an exhaustive list of islands found in Michigan waters of the Great
Lakes, but I would have to guess that the ones I have mentioned are all
pretty remote.
--
Larry Harvilla
E-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org

also visit: http://www.phatpage.org/
Highways section in progress.
o***@erols.com
2005-06-06 21:58:06 UTC
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Raw Message
In Hawaii, Kalawao County (a little outpost on the north shore of
Molokai) has no road access, only a mule trail (hikers can travel,
taking care not to step on the "mule apples"), or via small plane or
boat (scheduled air service, no scheduled passenger boat service,
though a supply barge stops by every once in awhile).

Moreover, entry into the county without prior government permission is
prohibited by law, and even with permission is not allowed for those
under 16, or for those not visiting the county as part of an organized
tour (no tours on Sundays, the guides are in church that day) or as
personal guests of residents. A few dozen Hansen's Disease ("leprosy")
patients chose to remain, even though the quarantine that confined them
to the county was lifted in 1969. The restrictions originally made to
prevent spread of the disease, remain to protect the privacy of the
remaining patients. So I'd say that Kalawao County is one of the most
inaccessible *counties* in the U.S. (some Alaskan boroughs and census
areas are also pretty inaccessible).

See http://www.hawaiihighways.com/photos-Kalawao.htm (includes photos
of the ominous warning signs at the mule trail and airport entrances to
the county -- I was just out there on Saturday, the mule trail sign is
still there -- and a link to the Hawaii Highways FAQs entry with more
info).

BTW, at least Kalawao County gets visitors (me and a few thousand
others). There are spots in the rugged mountains of west Maui that are
so inaccessible that they probably have never had human visitation.

--
Oscar Voss, ***@erols.com
(on Molokai right now, then on to Kauai for a few days before returning
home)
Scott Nuzum
2005-06-07 18:21:24 UTC
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I am trying to think of a place in Kansas that would be "remote." But
what is remote?

If it's a place where there's hardly any people, Logan and Gove counties
come to mind. There are few population centers and those that there
are are tiny. Oakley is probably the biggest town in either county.

If it's a place difficult to access, then I don't know. Nothing would be
*as* difficult to reach as, say an island or a remote mountain town.

S.E.N.
Baffled on this one.
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
For instance, there's a little-known group of islands 65 miles west of Key
West that is probably the most remote spot in Florida.
There's an island 30 miles west of San Francisco (which is legally part of
the city of San Francisco) that would have to be one of the most remote
places in California.
For Louisiana, I was originally thinking it would be the mouth of the
Mississippi River, but there is an island about 25 miles east of the
mainland of St. Bernard Parish that is probably more remote.
For some states like Illinois, Ohio, or Indiana it's gonna be very hard to
find any good remote areas.
For Kentucky, I'd say probably somewhere in southern Martin County (since
Kentucky doesn't have any sea islands).
Also, what would be the most remote incorporated place (or CDP) in each
state? If Supai, Arizona, is a CDP, then it would be a good candidate.
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Dave
2005-06-08 04:52:33 UTC
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Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
IIRC when (then) President Clinton signed an executive order creating
the Grand Staircase National Monument in Southern Utah it supposedly
guaranteed that the Kaiparowits plateau would remain the most remote
place in the lower 48. Approx 25-30 arial miles from the nearest paved
road (UT-12). And easily 100 miles from any city over 1,000 people. I
also recall that had the monument not been created and the proposed coal
mines allowed to operate the honor would have passed to somewhere in
Nevada (shocker =-) ). Probably to some military base that doesn't
exist between Austin and Las Vegas =-)

David
Michael G. Koerner
2005-06-08 04:56:27 UTC
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Post by Dave
Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Anyone ever try to make a list of the most remote place in each of the 50
states (and DC)?
The main rule is that it has to be on land, and can't be on water. Any
island off the coast that has few or no residents is a good candidate.
IIRC when (then) President Clinton signed an executive order creating
the Grand Staircase National Monument in Southern Utah it supposedly
guaranteed that the Kaiparowits plateau would remain the most remote
place in the lower 48. Approx 25-30 arial miles from the nearest paved
road (UT-12). And easily 100 miles from any city over 1,000 people. I
also recall that had the monument not been created and the proposed coal
mines allowed to operate the honor would have passed to somewhere in
Nevada (shocker =-) ). Probably to some military base that doesn't
exist between Austin and Las Vegas =-)
I assume that if Congress wants to, they can still authorize the
development of those coal mines, correct?
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Dave
2005-06-08 05:17:05 UTC
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[snip]
Post by Michael G. Koerner
Post by Dave
IIRC when (then) President Clinton signed an executive order creating
the Grand Staircase National Monument in Southern Utah it supposedly
guaranteed that the Kaiparowits plateau would remain the most remote
place in the lower 48.
[snip]
Post by Michael G. Koerner
Post by Dave
I also recall that had the monument not been created and the proposed coal
mines allowed to operate the honor would have passed to somewhere in
Nevada
[snip]
Post by Michael G. Koerner
I assume that if Congress wants to, they can still authorize the
development of those coal mines, correct?
I dunno'. I think a law passed by congress would supersede an executive
order. Certainly the current president could resend an executive order
from a previous president. That happens virtually every time the
"current Resident" of the white house changes. I'm also fairly certain
an executive order could be overturned by the supreme court. Any lawyers
in the house?

David
Michael Gronseth
2005-06-08 06:34:31 UTC
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Putting on my amateur legal hat for a moment. Most Executive Orders are
directions from a President to his subordinates in the Executive Branch
to do something. Since all of the Executive Branch departments are the
creation of Congress, and they theoretically carry out their various
functions in the guise of a delegation of authority by Congress... it
would follow that Congress yields considerable control over the
unelected Executive Branch. The President could veto any bill passed by
Congress attempting to modify, revoke or subvert any Executive Order.
Of course, the Supreme Court of the United States is the court of
highest appeal in interpretting the law and the Constitution. I would
wager it is all a matter of the various checks & balances.

-Michael P. Gronseth
Negaune, MI
william lynch
2005-06-08 15:57:02 UTC
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Post by Michael Gronseth
Putting on my amateur legal hat for a moment. Most Executive Orders are
directions from a President to his subordinates in the Executive Branch
to do something. Since all of the Executive Branch departments are the
creation of Congress, and they theoretically carry out their various
functions in the guise of a delegation of authority by Congress... it
would follow that Congress yields considerable control over the
unelected Executive Branch. The President could veto any bill passed by
Congress attempting to modify, revoke or subvert any Executive Order.
Of course, the Supreme Court of the United States is the court of
highest appeal in interpretting the law and the Constitution. I would
wager it is all a matter of the various checks & balances.
-Michael P. Gronseth
Negaune, MI
Wearing a similar hat. Not even this extremist Supreme Court
could claim that there are constitutional grounds to allow a
private company to destroy a park, and the court is restricted
to ruling purely on how something is affected by the constitution.
Congress's best hope would be to cut all funding for maintenance
of said park, but they have already cut more than 40% of national
park funds since 2000, so that is kind of a hollow threat.
Pete Jenior
2005-06-10 00:07:39 UTC
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"Michael Gronseth" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message

Since all of the Executive Branch departments are the
Post by Michael Gronseth
creation of Congress,
Huh?

-Pete
Michael Gronseth
2005-06-10 01:11:31 UTC
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How did we get the Department of Justice? In the 1790s, Congress passed
bills setting up the first Executive Departments and the courts
inferior to the Supreme Court. Until then, they didn't exist.

The Constitution grants Congress the power to coin currency. Congress
has delegated that power to the US Mint, an agency of the Treasury
Department. There are other examples.

-Michael P. Gronseth
Negaunee, MI
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