Discussion:
Blue tint on digital photos
(too old to reply)
Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
2004-06-25 17:56:47 UTC
Permalink
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?

I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.
Pete from Boston
2004-06-25 18:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?
I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.
Get yourself a skylight filter. It's cheap and will also protect your lens.
Jason Learned
2004-06-25 21:22:43 UTC
Permalink
I had an HP Photosmart 320. Note the word "had" because it shitted out on me
and I replaced it with a Canon. I also got the occasional blue tints. For
any existing photos, try editing them in Adobe or whatever photo editing
software you have, by changing the colors. It may help.

At the risk of sounding pushy, you can get a much better camera than that
for the same price. My Canon which is FAR better than the HP ever was cost
about $50 less.

Jason
http://www.southfloridaroads.com
Post by Pete from Boston
Post by Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?
I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.
Get yourself a skylight filter. It's cheap and will also protect your lens.
Nathan Perry
2004-06-25 20:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?
I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.
I had the same problem with an HP 215...except in direct sunlight there
was usually a tint. Photoshop cleans it up nice, as do any number of
lower-cost image editing programs.
magyar
2004-06-25 20:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?
That's strange.
I have to add blue tint to about half of my photos when I scan them in.


Sandor G
--
"I'ma low pay daddy singin' th' high price blues."
--Corey Harris singing Woody Guthrie
HoustonFreeways
2004-06-25 21:12:26 UTC
Permalink
The digitals from my Sony DSC-P1 almost always require substantial color
processing. That includes removing casts (usually blue), and also adjusting
the color curves to use more of the spectrum. A typical process involves
removing casts, adjusting curves (often the aggregate RGB is sufficient),
resizing, and then carefully sharpening.

Have you ever noticed that most images on highway web sites are very poor
quality? Most people are not taking the time to process their photos
properly.

In fact, it is extremely rare to have an image which does not need to be
"photoshopped". Only film scans from my $1400 Nikon have a chance of being
good since I can adjust the parameters on the scan.

As the other poster mentioned, most software can perform this task. No need
to spend $700 on Photoshop, since $50 to $100 software (like PaintShop Pro)
does just fine.
Post by Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?
I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.
Roaddog
2004-06-26 00:53:19 UTC
Permalink
I almost always adjust the curves and levels when editing my photos. To
remove a blue tint generally one can just tweak the blue curve a bit to get
rid of the hue. Additionally tweaking the brightness/contrast settings can
help counteract the darkening that functions such as autolevels produce. For
the most part unless I am outside looking away from the sun, all photos I
take with my Canon Powershot require some editing.

- Alex

http://www.aaroads.com
Post by HoustonFreeways
The digitals from my Sony DSC-P1 almost always require substantial color
processing. That includes removing casts (usually blue), and also adjusting
the color curves to use more of the spectrum. A typical process involves
removing casts, adjusting curves (often the aggregate RGB is sufficient),
resizing, and then carefully sharpening.
Have you ever noticed that most images on highway web sites are very poor
quality? Most people are not taking the time to process their photos
properly.
In fact, it is extremely rare to have an image which does not need to be
"photoshopped". Only film scans from my $1400 Nikon have a chance of being
good since I can adjust the parameters on the scan.
As the other poster mentioned, most software can perform this task. No need
to spend $700 on Photoshop, since $50 to $100 software (like PaintShop Pro)
does just fine.
Post by Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
blue tint to it?
I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.
a***@my-deja.com
2004-06-26 13:33:13 UTC
Permalink
[Mr. Slotboom:]
Post by HoustonFreeways
The digitals from my Sony DSC-P1 almost always require substantial color
processing. That includes removing casts (usually blue), and also adjusting
the color curves to use more of the spectrum. A typical process involves
removing casts, adjusting curves (often the aggregate RGB is sufficient),
resizing, and then carefully sharpening.
I have a Kodak Easyshare LS443 and I too have observed that it often
gets the white balance wrong, generally erring in favor of blue,
although the cast is somewhat less than would be the case if the
camera really had assumed tungsten lighting. My usual approach to
dealing with this problem is just to take the same picture
repeatedly--with digital technology "burning film" is not an issue,
and it takes a lot longer to readjust the picture within 'Photoshop'
than it does to take an in-camera copy. I have of course tried to
solve this problem by requiring the camera to assume daylight, but it
still manages to get the color balance wrong occasionally.

Also, if the camera is like my LS443 and uses severe *.JPG
compression, 'Photoshop' adjustments won't produce satisfactory
results if the initial exposure is significantly adrift of the desired
optimum. This is because *.JPG compression is lossy and works by
converting adjacent areas of similar tone to the same tone.
"Adjusting the color curves to use more of the spectrum" generally
involves remapping similar tones in the original image onto more
widely dispersed tones in the modified image, and if extreme
compression has been used, this often results in large areas of
shallow color gradient (such as blue sky) turning into a tassellation
of rectangular areas on whose borders the tone shifts abruptly.

In general I never even try to adjust digital camera pictures, aside
from sharpening (as suggested in Philip Greenspun's photo-editing
guidance) for presentation on the Web or in other environments where
the pictures are likely to be viewed only on a computer screen. I
feel life is just too short to spend that amount of time on, e.g.,
5000 pictures from a 30-day road trip. If I don't have an image of a
particular subject which has been correctly exposed and has come out
of the camera with satisfactory color balance, gamma, etc., I just
move on to the next subject.
Post by HoustonFreeways
Have you ever noticed that most images on highway web sites are very poor
quality? Most people are not taking the time to process their photos
properly.
I have noticed and, to tell the truth, it is a major pet peeve for me.
Many site maintainers have fairly expensive S.L.R. camera equipment
(quite a few M.T.R. regulars have much more money invested in their
cameras than I have in my own totally secondhand manual-focus S.L.R.
kit which has trouble metering correctly) but shoot print film, which
produces lousy scans at both first and second generation. For many
road pictures, "getting the sign" tends to be prioritized over
"getting a good picture," which leads to lots of shots of severely
backlit signs which can barely be read. (Very few people have learned
the trick of photographing backlit signs WITH FLASH, so that the light
bouncing off the retroreflective sheeting approximately matches
sunlight in intensity.)

Digital cameras will not cure all of these troubles by any means, but
they generally have some sort of "instant proofing" feature which
allows less skilled photographers to iterate until they have
satisfactory results.
Post by HoustonFreeways
In fact, it is extremely rare to have an image which does not need to be
"photoshopped". Only film scans from my $1400 Nikon have a chance of being
good since I can adjust the parameters on the scan.
Actually, I use slide film for "keeper" shots and I have found that my
Acer (now Benq) ScanWit generally produces satisfactory results if I
let it choose gamma automatically and then readjust gamma to suit my
preferences in 'Photoshop'. (For most of my scans this means making a
gamma adjustment of around 0.66 or 0.67.)

Good film is important. I tend to travel in places where blue sky
forms a fairly consistent background to my pictures and thus I have to
be careful to use films which don't show prominent grain in clear-blue
sky areas. Fujichrome Provia and Velvia are the best I have seen,
while consumer-grade Kodak Ektachrome is pretty much the worst (this
is a comparison I have made across the same photo-processing lab and
the same slide scanner).

I purchased the Benq about two years ago for $350 and, after some
trial and error, I have productized the process sufficiently that I
can render about 20-30 images into a publishable state within an hour.
I think I have navigated to an optimum point where I produce quite
good results at minimum cost in time and money, but "life is too
short" continues to be an issue. I have a large backlog of about 300
rolls of slide film which I have never scanned, and which could easily
take a year to finish if I spent two hours every night scanning a roll
and burning it to CD, without time off for weekend trips or vacations.
Post by HoustonFreeways
As the other poster mentioned, most software can perform this task. No need
to spend $700 on Photoshop, since $50 to $100 software (like PaintShop Pro)
does just fine.
'ImageMagick' is downloadable free of charge, is a pretty
comprehensive 'Photoshop' killer, and has very impressive batch
processing capabilities. It's a pretty decent way to save $700 if you
are fluent in 'Photoshop' manipulations and don't mind working with a
command-prompt interface.
Monte Castleman
2004-06-26 14:43:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@my-deja.com
Also, if the camera is like my LS443 and uses severe *.JPG
compression, 'Photoshop' adjustments won't produce satisfactory
results if the initial exposure is significantly adrift of the desired
optimum. This is because *.JPG compression is lossy and works by
converting adjacent areas of similar tone to the same tone.
Additionally, many cameras seem to perform other processeing to the JPEGs. You
may or may not like this, but you can probably do it a lot better in photoshop

It's best not to use JPEG for anything but the final product. TIFF or RAW
files take up perhaps 5X as much space, but may be worth it if the photo is
something you care about and/or plan to edit heavily. For the serious digital
photographer, a microdrive, several large memory cards, or taking a laptop
along for picture dumping are several different options.

For the average consumer, more people would complain about the amount of space
TIFFs take than the effects of JPEG compression...
Post by a***@my-deja.com
Post by HoustonFreeways
Have you ever noticed that most images on highway web sites are very poor
quality? Most people are not taking the time to process their photos
properly.
I have noticed and, to tell the truth, it is a major pet peeve for me.
Many site maintainers have fairly expensive S.L.R. camera equipment
(quite a few M.T.R. regulars have much more money invested in their
cameras than I have in my own totally secondhand manual-focus S.L.R.
kit which has trouble metering correctly) but shoot print film, which
produces lousy scans at both first and second generation.
I agree with you that scanning second generation prints never works well
because of the limited contrast and resolution, but I've gotten pretty good
results with negatives. I think the lousy pictures are more bad technique as
choice of processes. Even if you have to scan prints, like I did before I got
my film scanner, you can get better results than a lot of the stuff out there
if you shoot correctly (garbage in-> garbage out), and scan correctly.
Post by a***@my-deja.com
For many
road pictures, "getting the sign" tends to be prioritized over
"getting a good picture," which leads to lots of shots of severely
backlit signs which can barely be read. (Very few people have learned
the trick of photographing backlit signs WITH FLASH, so that the light
bouncing off the retroreflective sheeting approximately matches
sunlight in intensity.)
I've tried this, and what usually happens is that it backfires and the sign
becomes wildly overexposed. Usually what I do is take a picture without flash,
then selectively adjust the levels of just the sign.
Post by a***@my-deja.com
Digital cameras will not cure all of these troubles by any means, but
they generally have some sort of "instant proofing" feature which
allows less skilled photographers to iterate until they have
satisfactory results.
Instant proofing is by far the most powerful feature of digital. It takes a
lot of skill to know how a camera is going to see the scene, given lighting,
motion. It's still somewhat guesswork, especially for point & shoot cameras
where you don't know what the shutter, iris, and focus are going to be. Film
photography takes a lot of wasted shots before you get the hang of the quirks
of photography in general and (for point & shoots) your camera in particular.
Post by a***@my-deja.com
Good film is important. I tend to travel in places where blue sky
forms a fairly consistent background to my pictures and thus I have to
be careful to use films which don't show prominent grain in clear-blue
sky areas. Fujichrome Provia and Velvia are the best I have seen,
while consumer-grade Kodak Ektachrome is pretty much the worst (this
is a comparison I have made across the same photo-processing lab and
the same slide scanner).
As for negative film, I've found that consumer grades of Fuji work pretty good
for road purposes. ISO 200 works pretty good, even for moving shots, and isn't
objectionally grainy when scanned and enlarged. This isn't a film you'd take
people shots with, though.

Agfa is also OK, but I don't like Kodak or Konica for road pictures, as the
colors seem to be "off" when I scan them.
--
--^\____
| / Monte Castleman, <<Spamfilter in Use>>
| / Bloomington, MN <<to email, remove the "q" from address>>
| |
| *| Visit my Minnesota Highways Page:
|_____\ http://home.earthlink.net/~northstarhighways
a***@my-deja.com
2004-06-27 17:12:13 UTC
Permalink
[Mr. Castleman:]
Post by Monte Castleman
TIFF or RAW
files take up perhaps 5X as much space, but may be worth it if the photo is
something you care about and/or plan to edit heavily. For the serious digital
photographer, a microdrive, several large memory cards, or taking a laptop
along for picture dumping are several different options.
This is true. I have to point out that I am not a serious digital
photographer. I got the LS443 originally to photograph documents in
records offices here in Britain, and I chose it after studying the
papers I would need to "copy" using the camera and developing a series
of need-based criteria.

* In order to be able to photograph very fine typescript on postwar
loose minutes etc. so that I could read the results on a 1024 x 768
computer screen without difficulty, I calculated I needed 3.2 MP
minimum. I opted for 4 MP to give a margin of error and I have since
taken advantage of this by photographing books and periodicals (which
often have very fine type).

* My research work covers the period 1906-1972, during which British
government departments used "office foolscap." This is slightly more
oblong than A4, which itself is slightly more oblong than letter-size.
I wanted to have each unit area of written-upon paper recorded by as
many pixels as I could, so the LS443 with its 3:2 image ratio had a
strong advantage over the 4:3 ratio which was more or less standard
among its competition.

* The LS443's nearest competitor was the Nikon CoolPix 4300. The
features it had that the Kodak did not included (1) the option to vary
compression level, (2) the option to save in *.TIF rather than *.JPG,
and (3) the option to set the exposure manually. I would have
infinitely preferred to buy the CoolPix if I were getting a digital
camera for recreational purposes. However, I had to get the camera
for research, so my main concern was whether the LS443's heavy-handed
compression would make text hard to read. After some study of test
shots on the Web I discovered that image quality from the LS443 was
not far inferior to the CoolPix provided the subject was contrasty.
For typescript on white paper this is generally not a problem. I do
miss the clarity of the CoolPix when taking landscape shots, though.

$350 did seem to me rather a lot to pay for a digital camera which I
knew would be missing capabilities I considered fairly essential. But
the alternative was to try to photocopy the important documents I
needed and take notes on the rest. I felt this was a bad deal
because, even if I managed to save money by not making a copy (at a
rate of 40p per A3 page) of every single document in a 300-page file,
it would still take me a lot of time to go through all 300 pages,
identify the ones which were important and which were not, mark the
important ones up for photocopying using bookmarks, and take notes on
the rest with a consequent risk of transcription errors.

My doctoral dissertation covers some topics which have already been
written about by others and, as I have gone through their material, I
have found lots of errors which could easily have been avoided if
these other writers had been able to refer to an actual copy of the
official record OUTSIDE the records office.

Chris Marshall's site has a few examples of documents which have been
photographed for research purposes, although the pictures uploaded to
his website have actually been resampled down from the original 1632 x
2448 size:

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/wartoworboys/2.shtml
Post by Monte Castleman
Post by a***@my-deja.com
For many
road pictures, "getting the sign" tends to be prioritized over
"getting a good picture," which leads to lots of shots of severely
backlit signs which can barely be read. (Very few people have learned
the trick of photographing backlit signs WITH FLASH, so that the light
bouncing off the retroreflective sheeting approximately matches
sunlight in intensity.)
I've tried this, and what usually happens is that it backfires and the sign
becomes wildly overexposed. Usually what I do is take a picture without flash,
then selectively adjust the levels of just the sign.
Sign "burn-out" is a major problem with newer types of retroreflective
sheeting. I have personally never been able to get a satisfactory
flash picture of a sign with microprismatic sheeting, and
high-intensity sheeting is pretty hit-and-miss. If the sign panel is
especially large, it becomes less bright toward the edges because the
efficiency of the retroreflective sheeting diminishes with increasing
entry angle.

But the flash trick works wonders with small signs (letters 6" tall)
using super engineer-grade, which is still the default sheeting for
rural areas in many Rocky Mountain states.

These tips help somewhat:

* If the sign "burns out," try to arrange a later shot so that the
sign almost fills the picture frame.

* Decrease exposure time using exposure compensation (generally this
will be necessary anyway to keep the background from being burnt
out--let the shadows fall where they may . . .).

Adjusting contrast and brightness on the signface alone can help, but
in extreme cases there simply isn't enough tone information to allow
the lettering to be separated from the sign background without major
speckling. Before I got the digital camera, I used this trick several
times for slide pictures of backlit signs, but nowadays I usually
reserve the digital camera for shots of this kind and try to get an
already-optimized shot in the camera before I leave the scene.

These are reasonably successful examples:

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/p5482733.html

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/p5482744.html

These are perhaps not so good, with blocked-up shadows etc.:

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/p5482761.html

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/p5482953.html
Scott M. Kozel
2004-06-26 15:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@my-deja.com
[Mr. Slotboom:]
Post by HoustonFreeways
Have you ever noticed that most images on highway web sites are very poor
quality? Most people are not taking the time to process their photos
properly.
Erik's website photos are excellent, I might add.
Post by a***@my-deja.com
I have noticed and, to tell the truth, it is a major pet peeve for me.
Many site maintainers have fairly expensive S.L.R. camera equipment
(quite a few M.T.R. regulars have much more money invested in their
cameras than I have in my own totally secondhand manual-focus S.L.R.
kit which has trouble metering correctly) but shoot print film, which
produces lousy scans at both first and second generation. For many
road pictures, "getting the sign" tends to be prioritized over
"getting a good picture," which leads to lots of shots of severely
backlit signs which can barely be read. (Very few people have learned
the trick of photographing backlit signs WITH FLASH, so that the light
bouncing off the retroreflective sheeting approximately matches
sunlight in intensity.)
I have a Minolta SRT-200, which is a SLR, plus extra lenses, 35mm wide
angle (0.7x), 135mm telephoto (2.7x), and a 2x teleconverter that will
double the magnification of a lens. Having wide angle and telephoto
lenses greatly increases the "power" of a camera system. This camera
works fine with servicing every 5 years or so. I utilize print film
because I like to have the prints to look at, and utilize Fuji
professional grade film, and utilize the "premium" processing option at
the photo shop which develops my photos.

I scan my photos with my HP ScanJet 5300C scanner, and I process each
photo with Adobe PhotoDeluxe Business Edition, which came the scanner
(which cost about $250 three years ago). My photos that predated the
scanner, were scanned by a friend with no additional processing. This
scanner cannot scan negatives; it takes a more expensive scanner to do
that. After scanning, I crop and align the photo, I sharpen and smooth
the photo, I make slight color corrections if needed, and I often
brighten the photo.

I'll probably eventually get a quality digital SLR, and I have toyed
with getting the full professional grade Adobe PhotoShop, but with the
costs of each currently at about $700 (and that doesn't include extra
lenses for the camera), I haven't seen the justification yet.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
Oscar Voss
2004-06-26 18:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott M. Kozel
I'll probably eventually get a quality digital SLR, and I have toyed
with getting the full professional grade Adobe PhotoShop, but with the
costs of each currently at about $700 (and that doesn't include extra
lenses for the camera), I haven't seen the justification yet.
Definitely give first priority to a digital SLR, ahead of the full
version of Photoshop. I have Photoshop 6.0, as well as PhotoDeluxe
Business Edition (which is what you use). I use PhotoDeluxe most of the
time, not only because full Photoshop doesn't let me do much more of any
relevance to me (the main advantage is better image optimization, so
often I'll edit in PhotoDeluxe then do just optimization in Photoshop),
but also Photoshop has a pretty steep learning curve.
--
Oscar Voss - ***@erols.com - Arlington, Virginia

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://users.erols.com/ovoss/

NEW! Newfoundland road trip photos:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/photos-Newfoundland.htm
Scott M. Kozel
2004-06-27 02:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oscar Voss
Post by Scott M. Kozel
I'll probably eventually get a quality digital SLR, and I have toyed
with getting the full professional grade Adobe PhotoShop, but with the
costs of each currently at about $700 (and that doesn't include extra
lenses for the camera), I haven't seen the justification yet.
Definitely give first priority to a digital SLR, ahead of the full
version of Photoshop. I have Photoshop 6.0, as well as PhotoDeluxe
Business Edition (which is what you use). I use PhotoDeluxe most of the
time, not only because full Photoshop doesn't let me do much more of any
relevance to me (the main advantage is better image optimization, so
often I'll edit in PhotoDeluxe then do just optimization in Photoshop),
but also Photoshop has a pretty steep learning curve.
I don't think I'll go to the digital SLR soon unless a non-repairable
problem occurs with my film-based SLR. Digital does have advantages,
such as shooting loads of photos at virtually no incremental cost, and
having the image on the same day (which is possible with film, but more
complicated). One option would be for me to get a less-expensive
digital camera, at about $150 or so, with a built-in zoom lens, to
augment what I have, and I may do that soon.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
a***@my-deja.com
2004-06-27 11:25:36 UTC
Permalink
[Mr. Kozel:]
Post by Scott M. Kozel
I don't think I'll go to the digital SLR soon unless a non-repairable
problem occurs with my film-based SLR. Digital does have advantages,
such as shooting loads of photos at virtually no incremental cost, and
having the image on the same day (which is possible with film, but more
complicated). One option would be for me to get a less-expensive
digital camera, at about $150 or so, with a built-in zoom lens, to
augment what I have, and I may do that soon.
One other option would be to spend a little more, about $250-$350, for
a consumer-grade 4 MP digital camera with zoom lens and L.C.D.
preview. This would give you the added flexibility of cropping in
situations where it is absolutely impossible to compose the picture
satisfactorily, "archival" shots which you could then batch-resample
for Web display, and the ability to go into records offices and take
pictures of document pages which you can then read on a large-size,
high-resolution computer monitor without needing to upsample.

With regard to Mr. Voss' other points about 'Photoshop' versus digital
cameras, these are my own views:

* I have actually found the learning curve to be much steeper for
'PhotoDeluxe' than for 'Photoshop'. This is because 'Photoshop's
terminology and menu layout fit my concept of a digital image as a
mathematical construct much more closely than 'PhotoDeluxe' does. It
took me ages to learn how to produce satisfactory output in
'PhotoDeluxe' because I had to struggle to understand how various
'Photoshop' functions had been "dumbed down" for casual users whose
main objective appears to be putting digital camera pictures on
greeting cards.

* Generally, if you are purchasing a scanner or digital camera in the
$150 bracket, the image processing software you get will be 'Photoshop
LS'--a stripped-down version of 'Photoshop' which has essentially the
same interface but no batch processing capability. I.M.O. 'Photoshop
LS' is entirely sufficient for most purposes if you are willing to
download and run 'ImageMagick' to carry out the tasks 'Photoshop LS'
won't. (I do not know, however, if 'ImageMagick' can resize Group IV
*.TIF files and print them to *.PDF, which is my main use for the
batch processing feature in 'Photoshop' 6.0.)

* I think digital S.L.R.s are unduly expensive now, especially given
the few added benefits they convey over and above what can be obtained
from a film S.L.R./film scanner combination or a consumer-grade
digital camera with L.C.D. preview. They are also attractive to
thieves and, frankly, I would be nervous about carrying one around in
the same contexts where I freely leave my digital P.&S. camera
unattended (e.g., records offices where I leave the camera to transfer
pictures to my laptop while I go to the bathroom, drink water, get a
cup of coffee, etc.). I would suggest giving Moore's Law about ten
more years to churn, until a digital S.L.R. comes out which can truly
"kill" film S.L.R.s. This camera should have approximately the same
resolution as the maximum attainable from fine-grain film, and retail
for about the same price (~$300) as a reasonably good consumer-grade
film S.L.R. with autofocus.
Scott M. Kozel
2004-06-27 18:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@my-deja.com
[Mr. Kozel:]
Post by Scott M. Kozel
I don't think I'll go to the digital SLR soon unless a non-repairable
problem occurs with my film-based SLR. Digital does have advantages,
such as shooting loads of photos at virtually no incremental cost, and
having the image on the same day (which is possible with film, but more
complicated). One option would be for me to get a less-expensive
digital camera, at about $150 or so, with a built-in zoom lens, to
augment what I have, and I may do that soon.
One other option would be to spend a little more, about $250-$350, for
a consumer-grade 4 MP digital camera with zoom lens and L.C.D.
preview. This would give you the added flexibility of cropping in
situations where it is absolutely impossible to compose the picture
satisfactorily, "archival" shots which you could then batch-resample
for Web display, and the ability to go into records offices and take
pictures of document pages which you can then read on a large-size,
high-resolution computer monitor without needing to upsample.
I read all you wrote; thanks for the good info. :-)

I think that $250-$350 is somewhat more than I want to spend now for a
'second camera', but I could justify about $150 or so.

How about this camera for highway photos? I would be interested in
hearing any positive or negative feedback from anyone who has knowledge
about it.

It has the 1x-3x zoom lens, and costs $149.95, although accessories
would increase the final cost somewhat.

http://store.richmondcamera.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=1735
Nikon CoolPix 2200
[292907] $149.95

2.0 Effective Megapixels for photo-quality prints up to 8 x 10. 3x
Optical Zoom-Nikkor lens for sharp, clear images. 15 Scene Modes
automatically adjust controls for great pictures instantly. Scene
Assist guides you to take better pictures in Portrait, Landscape, Sports
and Night Portrait modes. Movie Mode allows the capture of live action
in QuickTime(TM) Movie format. Creative Shooting Color Options allow
you to select from standard color, vivid color, black and white, sepia
and cool modes. One-Touch Red-Eye Fix(TM) in NikonView is a Nikon
exclusive that automatically corrects red-eye in most typical
situations. Includes camera, batteries, wrist strap, cables and
software. Optional accessories include: SD Cards, camera case, Coolpix
Ni-MH rechargeable batteries and Quick Charger kit. USA Warranty. This
product was added to our catalog on Thursday 01 April, 2004.

[end of quote]
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
a***@my-deja.com
2004-06-29 09:44:25 UTC
Permalink
[Mr. Kozel:]
Post by Scott M. Kozel
I read all you wrote; thanks for the good info. :-)
You're welcome.
Post by Scott M. Kozel
How about this camera for highway photos? I would be interested in
hearing any positive or negative feedback from anyone who has knowledge
about it.
It looks like the Nikon CoolPix 2200 did not hit the market until last
April, so I don't think there are yet a lot of consumer reviews on it.
But in general I have found this to be very helpful:

http://www.dcresource.com/

It has full independent reviews of various digital cameras and also
links to others which come to different conclusions.

B.T.W. my Kodak LS443, bought exactly one year ago for $340, can now
be found for $270--so Moore's Law does work. My own experience tends
to show that a good strategy for avoiding abortive expenditure on
digital cameras (regardless of price level) is to delay buying until a
specific purpose emerges for the camera, and then not to delay a
minute more.
David J. Greenberger
2004-06-30 00:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott M. Kozel
How about this camera for highway photos? I would be interested in
hearing any positive or negative feedback from anyone who has knowledge
about it.
I don't know about this camera in particular, but one general trait of
most digital cameras is the substantial lag before the shutter fires.
It can be reduced by setting the manual focus to infinity, but not all
digital cameras have manual focus, and those that do might cancel it
when the camera powers off automatically.

If you tend to take photos while in motion, that might throw you off a
bit.
--
David J. Greenberger
New York, NY
Comrade Mister Yamamoto
2004-06-30 02:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by David J. Greenberger
Post by Scott M. Kozel
How about this camera for highway photos? I would be interested in
hearing any positive or negative feedback from anyone who has knowledge
about it.
I don't know about this camera in particular, but one general trait of
most digital cameras is the substantial lag before the shutter fires.
It can be reduced by setting the manual focus to infinity, but not all
digital cameras have manual focus, and those that do might cancel it
when the camera powers off automatically.
If you tend to take photos while in motion, that might throw you off a
bit.
You have to be careful with that-That's when I have a lot of trouble
with blurring. Car vibration has a lot to do with that, too. If the
light hits your windscreen just right, the AF on most cameras "sees" the
windscreen, putting the focus off.
--
Comrade Mister Yamamoto
http://mryamamoto.50megs.com
David J. Greenberger
2004-07-01 00:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Comrade Mister Yamamoto
Post by David J. Greenberger
I don't know about this camera in particular, but one general trait of
most digital cameras is the substantial lag before the shutter fires.
It can be reduced by setting the manual focus to infinity, but not all
digital cameras have manual focus, and those that do might cancel it
when the camera powers off automatically.
If you tend to take photos while in motion, that might throw you off a
bit.
You have to be careful with that-That's when I have a lot of trouble
with blurring. Car vibration has a lot to do with that, too. If the
light hits your windscreen just right, the AF on most cameras "sees"
the windscreen, putting the focus off.
Good point. That's another reason turning off autofocus is a good
idea in the car.

Many inexpensive digital cameras don't have a manual focus option.
Eliminate those cameras from consideration right off the bat.
--
David J. Greenberger
New York, NY
Oscar Voss
2004-06-26 17:55:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@my-deja.com
[Mr. Slotboom:]
Post by HoustonFreeways
Have you ever noticed that most images on highway web sites are very poor
quality? Most people are not taking the time to process their photos
properly.
I have noticed and, to tell the truth, it is a major pet peeve for me.
Many site maintainers have fairly expensive S.L.R. camera equipment
(quite a few M.T.R. regulars have much more money invested in their
cameras than I have in my own totally secondhand manual-focus S.L.R.
kit which has trouble metering correctly) but shoot print film, which
produces lousy scans at both first and second generation.
I shoot mainly print film, but sometimes slides, and occasionally use
both kinds of film on the same subject in the same shoot (using both of
my cameras, one loaded with print film, the other with slide). I have
not noticed any difference in scanability between print film and slide
film when run through my film scanner, and also not much if any quality
loss from scanning a print (which I guess is what you mean by "second
generation") on a flatbed scanner, so long as both the print and the
scanner glass are clean. Since road signs and structures are not real
demanding subjects, I don't think any difference really means much in
the end. As you suggest below, how well the photo is composed and taken
makes a lot of difference, IMO much more than the medium or the method
of digitizing it.
Post by a***@my-deja.com
For many
road pictures, "getting the sign" tends to be prioritized over
"getting a good picture," which leads to lots of shots of severely
backlit signs which can barely be read. (Very few people have learned
the trick of photographing backlit signs WITH FLASH, so that the light
bouncing off the retroreflective sheeting approximately matches
sunlight in intensity.)
Digital cameras will not cure all of these troubles by any means,
but they generally have some sort of "instant proofing" feature
which allows less skilled photographers to iterate until they have
satisfactory results.
I agree that too many road photos suffer from backlighting. "Fill
flash" can help sometimes (not when you can't get close enough to the
subject). But sometimes the best photo equipment and composition
skills, and multiple tries to get it right, will leave you stuck with a
less-than-ideal photo (the only good alternative is to come back later
in the day or the following morning when the lighting is better), so
realistically the choice is to use an imperfect photo (perhaps
Photoshopped to try to salvage the image) or not post it at all.
--
Oscar Voss - ***@erols.com - Arlington, Virginia

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://users.erols.com/ovoss/

NEW! Newfoundland road trip photos:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/photos-Newfoundland.htm
Ron Bean
2004-06-26 20:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@my-deja.com
My usual approach to
dealing with this problem is just to take the same picture
repeatedly--with digital technology "burning film" is not an issue,
and it takes a lot longer to readjust the picture within 'Photoshop'
than it does to take an in-camera copy.
Correcting in Photoshop (or equivalent) doesn't take long once
you've used to doing it.

For color casts, the main thing is to look for neutrals. Most
images have something in them that should be white or gray, and
shadows should almost always be neutral (R=G=B). That plus some
contrast enhancement (curves or "levels") can make a big difference.

Some programs can do this more-or-less automatically, although I
don't bother because it's easy to do by hand.

(I agree that it's better to start with a good original, if you
have time. But sometimes you have to grab the shot and move on.)
Post by a***@my-deja.com
Also, if the camera is like my LS443 and uses severe *.JPG
compression, 'Photoshop' adjustments won't produce satisfactory
results if the initial exposure is significantly adrift of the desired
optimum.
When buying a camera, make sure it has a "low compression" mode
(and a "no sharpening" mode, since sharpening can increase JPEG
artifacts). For anything short of a DSLR, low compression can be
almost as good as RAW (due to the limitations of the lens).
Post by a***@my-deja.com
I
feel life is just too short to spend that amount of time on, e.g.,
5000 pictures from a 30-day road trip.
Just correct the good ones :-).

Sort first, then crop, *then* correct.

Cropping can help a lot of you can't get a good camera angle
(eg, if the perfect shot would involve standing in the middle of
a road, or climbing a fence). Also, the subject doesn't always
have the same aspect ratio as the camera.

I see a lot of stuff on the web that could be improved by
cropping.
a***@my-deja.com
2004-06-27 18:01:10 UTC
Permalink
[Mr. Bean:]
Post by Ron Bean
For color casts, the main thing is to look for neutrals. Most
images have something in them that should be white or gray, and
shadows should almost always be neutral (R=G=B). That plus some
contrast enhancement (curves or "levels") can make a big difference.
My experience has been that these techniques work well only if the
color cast is more or less uniform across the picture, and I have
rarely had to deal with situations like that.

In the past, before I learned how to prevent this from happening, my
slide scanner would scan white areas in pictures (such as the white
background of signs) pink when it got too warm, but maintain more or
less accurate color rendition for the rest of the picture. Then, when
I tried to get rid of the pink cast by adjusting color curves, I found
I could get a clean white only by turning the rest of the picture
sickly green. 'Photoshop' "Auto Levels" produced a similar result.
Solving this problem in turn led to an added step--masking out
everything but the white area. I felt these were a lot of steps to
add when I was trying to get 20-30 pictures out within an hour to a
hour and a half.

My personal philosophy is that color casts in scans are symptomatic of
a failure in quality control. After some experimentation, I
discovered that the pink cast could be eliminated by placing something
cold on top of the scanner to keep it at a consistent temperature
throughout the scanning session. I have two hunks of frozen Leicester
cheese (both about two years past their sell-by dates) which I use for
this purpose.

Shooting the same image repeatedly with a digital camera not only
increases the chances of an otherwise optimum image slipping through
without a color cast, but also furnishes other examples which can be
used for color matching if you do have to get rid of a cast in one
picture.
Post by Ron Bean
When buying a camera, make sure it has a "low compression" mode
(and a "no sharpening" mode, since sharpening can increase JPEG
artifacts). For anything short of a DSLR, low compression can be
almost as good as RAW (due to the limitations of the lens).
Some people do not have this flexibility since they are in effect
repurposing a digital camera they bought for other reasons. I chose
my own camera specifically to take pictures of documents in records
offices and so I have had to accept those sorts of limitations, which
I would not even consider in a camera I was using recreationally.
Bracketing and repeated duplicative shooting at various zoom levels
allow me to get reasonably good results from this camera despite its
not having the desirable features you mention.
Post by Ron Bean
Post by a***@my-deja.com
I
feel life is just too short to spend that amount of time on, e.g.,
5000 pictures from a 30-day road trip.
Just correct the good ones :-).
Sort first, then crop, *then* correct.
Point taken. But I look on it as a resourcing issue. My main
motivation for taking the 5000 pictures is to have a private record of
my trip which I can mine for various purposes later on. But I do then
come home and have family and friends asking me what I did, what I
saw, etc. These people generally don't have a specialized interest in
roads or a desire to sit down and see the full 5000 pictures, so it
makes sense for me to keep the resulting slideshow as brief as
possible, and for me to economize on preparation by choosing only the
cream of the cream--the pictures which are both interesting (not
necessarily because they show roads) and which have come out of the
camera already optimized.
Post by Ron Bean
Cropping can help a lot of you can't get a good camera angle
(eg, if the perfect shot would involve standing in the middle of
a road, or climbing a fence). Also, the subject doesn't always
have the same aspect ratio as the camera.
I see a lot of stuff on the web that could be improved by
cropping.
So do I. But my personal philosophy is to crop "in the camera"
(through better composition) whenever possible. I am not above
climbing fences or standing in the middle of roads to accomplish this,
provided I can do it safely. (For instance, I wouldn't hesitate to
stand in the middle of U.S. 18-20 in eastern Wyoming, but Business 80
in Sacramento during rush hour gives me pause.) As ever, the trouble
with cropping the camera output is that fewer data points contribute
toward a representation of the desired object and so problems like
indistinct edges, speckling, too-obvious grain, etc. can emerge.
HoustonFreeways
2004-06-27 02:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@my-deja.com
Actually, I use slide film for "keeper" shots and I have found that my
Acer (now Benq) ScanWit generally produces satisfactory results if I
let it choose gamma automatically and then readjust gamma to suit my
preferences in 'Photoshop'. (For most of my scans this means making a
gamma adjustment of around 0.66 or 0.67.)
Good film is important. I tend to travel in places where blue sky
forms a fairly consistent background to my pictures and thus I have to
be careful to use films which don't show prominent grain in clear-blue
sky areas. Fujichrome Provia and Velvia are the best I have seen,
while consumer-grade Kodak Ektachrome is pretty much the worst (this
is a comparison I have made across the same photo-processing lab and
the same slide scanner).
Grainy sky is a problem I have not been able to eliminate with negative
film. Although Fuji Reala is the best for fine grain in negative film, blue
sky can be very grainy. I've tried Kodak and Fuji Sensia slide film and
didn't like the results with my Nikon Coolscan 4000, so I stuck with
negative film. As long as I stick with 100 speed, negative film is suitable
for my purposes. My main concerns are ease of aquisition and processing and
low cost, and the Kodak or Fuji multi-pack 100 speed are readily available
for just over $1 per roll.

I agree, scanning prints should be avoided. The cost of decent film scanners
has surely come down (I dropped $1400 on my Nikon), but I would tend to
think that the casual road photographer can't justify the expense.

Another benefit of film is no inherent sharpening. My digital camera
automatically sharpens, and this can be a severe artifact especially with
overpasses against a bright background. I can reduce but not eliminate
sharpening on my Sony DSC-P1; apparently other digital cameras can turn off
sharpening.

Like you, I try to use film for any photos that could have long-term
historic significance. At some point I plan to package up all my Houston
Freeways research materials and donate them to a library's permanent
collection. That includes all my photos. I've seem my share of dye drift in
slide film during my Houston Freeways research (which varied widely and was
often severe). I don't know if negative or slide film is more stable over
the long run.
magyar
2004-06-27 04:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by HoustonFreeways
I agree, scanning prints should be avoided. The cost of decent film scanners
has surely come down (I dropped $1400 on my Nikon), but I would tend to
think that the casual road photographer can't justify the expense.
$1,400?!? How big is it and when did you buy it?
Post by HoustonFreeways
Like you, I try to use film for any photos that could have long-term
historic significance. At some point I plan to package up all my Houston
Freeways research materials and donate them to a library's permanent
collection. That includes all my photos. I've seem my share of dye drift in
slide film during my Houston Freeways research (which varied widely and was
often severe). I don't know if negative or slide film is more stable over
the long run.
I've been told slide film is more stable over time than negatives.

Sandor G
--
"I'ma low pay daddy singin' th' high price blues."
--Corey Harris singing Woody Guthrie
HoustonFreeways
2004-06-27 15:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by magyar
$1,400?!? How big is it and when did you buy it?
Nikon Super Coolscan 4000 ED, purchased January 2002. A quick online check
shows that the lowest price is now around $1300. This is a near-professional
unit.
josef
2004-06-26 06:13:49 UTC
Permalink
"Florence Henderson Had A Mullet" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:***@news.individual.de...
: How do I prevent my digital camera from ruining my photos by adding a
: blue tint to it?
:
: I have an HP Photosmart 320 (now discontinued). No mention of a blue
: tint is made anywhere in the troubleshooting section of the manual.


you don't just have a light setting/"AE program" set on "incandescent" or
something right?
Florence Henderson Had A Mullet
2004-06-26 06:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by josef
you don't just have a light setting/"AE program" set on "incandescent" or
something right?
My camera doesn't have advanced stuff like that.
Bryn Buck
2004-06-26 13:49:24 UTC
Permalink
I had a HP Photosmart 215 that did the blue photo trick.

I got rid of the camera when I upgraded my PC though as XP didn't like it much
- I know use a Fujifilm Finepix A310 which is much better than the HP 215 - and
does about 15 batches (using a 128mb memory card) of 2 minute (silent) video
which is good for quirky bits of road.

I'd suggest, if you have the resources available, that you upgrade to a new
camera, to be honest.
================
Bryn Buck
British Roadgeek
http://www.lmars.co.uk
Ingsoc75
2004-06-26 15:23:06 UTC
Permalink
Photoshop, or for the less experienced Photoshop Elements.
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