OT: History--Cincinnati telephone exchange districts--dial cutover?

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

OFF TOPIC

Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
geography and history, I thought I'd ask the following:

Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?

I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".

Would anyone know if that building is still in use as are the
exchanges of "Cherry" and "Parkway"?


Other Cincinnati exchanges are listed as:

Avon, Bramble, East, Hemlock, Hiland, Kirby, Main, Melrose Jefferson
(may be dial), Montana, South, University, Valley, Wabash, West, and
Woodburn.


Any comments appreciated. [public replies, please] Thanks!

[richard]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".
Would anyone know if that building is still in use as are the
exchanges of "Cherry" and "Parkway"?
Avon, Bramble, East, Hemlock, Hiland, Kirby, Main, Melrose Jefferson
(may be dial), Montana, South, University, Valley, Wabash, West, and
Woodburn.
Any comments appreciated. [public replies, please] Thanks!

The building itself may be there and in use. But not by Cinci Bell.
I believe they dropped the "names" in the mid '60's.
In the '50's our old exchange was "Mulberry" so I'd say they probably
changed the list a few times, and added to it.



--

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.
Mark Twain(attributed)

[H.B. Elkins]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".

I'm not quite sure about Cincy, but I always found the use of numbered exchanges
back in the old days to be fascinating.

My grandmother had an old dial telephone that stated her number as INgersoll
4-2442 (hard to believe I can remember her phone number when she's been dead for
years). It took me awhile to figure out how that translated to the number that I
knew for her until I looked at the face of the dial phone and saw that I and N
corresponded to 4 and 6, and our phone prefix in my county was 464. That
explained "INgersoll 4-" in the number.

Why did they name phone exchanges instead of just using numbers like they do
now?

[richard]

On 22 Feb 2008 16:59:11 -0800, H.B. Elkins

Post by H.B. Elkins

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".

I'm not quite sure about Cincy, but I always found the use of numbered exchanges
back in the old days to be fascinating.
My grandmother had an old dial telephone that stated her number as INgersoll
4-2442 (hard to believe I can remember her phone number when she's been dead for
years). It took me awhile to figure out how that translated to the number that I
knew for her until I looked at the face of the dial phone and saw that I and N
corresponded to 4 and 6, and our phone prefix in my county was 464. That
explained "INgersoll 4-" in the number.
Why did they name phone exchanges instead of just using numbers like they do
now?

It had to do basically with a bit of geography and locations.
More probably, some ingenious fool decided that, hey, we can take the
first two numbers, and assign them a letter, then make a catchy name
for it.
After all, back in the days of it's first use, a four digit number was
issued and "exchanges" covered a much wider area.

Maybe the most famous of all exchanges, and numbers is "Pennsylvania
6, 5,000".


--

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.
Mark Twain(attributed)

[Rich Piehl]

Post by H.B. Elkins

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".

I'm not quite sure about Cincy, but I always found the use of numbered exchanges
back in the old days to be fascinating.
My grandmother had an old dial telephone that stated her number as INgersoll
4-2442 (hard to believe I can remember her phone number when she's been dead for
years). It took me awhile to figure out how that translated to the number that I
knew for her until I looked at the face of the dial phone and saw that I and N
corresponded to 4 and 6, and our phone prefix in my county was 464. That
explained "INgersoll 4-" in the number.
Why did they name phone exchanges instead of just using numbers like they do
now?

In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones. People often used their phone exchange name as a way of
determining socio-economic status. Kinda' sad, really, but St. Louis
has always been a city in which where you live elevates you, lowers you,
labels you a snob or wealthy, or poor. Zip codes and, before that, two
digit postal codes were never quite localized enough to serve the
purpose. After the phones went to all numerics much of that capability
was lost.

And in the mid to late 50's St. Louis went from 5 to 7 digit phone
numbers. It was the exchange and then for numerics.

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:25:12 -0600, Rich Piehl

Post by Rich Piehl
In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones.

Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

Some areas did convert as early as 1963, but the last conversion was
in 1980.

Some communities weren't pleased about it and the Bell System had to
tread lightly.

In areas that the conversion was later, it's still possible to find
buildings with painted signs with letters. Some businesses never
bothered changed their stationery.

[Rich Piehl]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

Some areas did convert as early as 1963, but the last conversion was
in 1980.
Some communities weren't pleased about it and the Bell System had to
tread lightly.
In areas that the conversion was later, it's still possible to find
buildings with painted signs with letters. Some businesses never
bothered changed their stationery.

There are still some older buildings in St. Louis where you can find
those old numbers panted on the side and fainted badly.

I had fun doing a little detective work a few years ago. I was doing
some phone installation work (since I know you are on the telecom NG) in
a old city building that was being rehabbed. As a result of the rehab
work I saw the phone number (a exchange name and 4 digit number) on the
entrance door transom long boarded over from the outside so it wasn't
visible. Some internet research later I found out the company had grown
from that storefront to a well to do business with about 100 employees.

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.]

Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:25:12 -0600, Rich Piehl

Post by Rich Piehl
In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones.

Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

I don't think it was done everywhere at once--and it didn't really
matter outside of the local area with direct distance dialing until new
prefixes were opened. Prefix-per-exchange had for practical purposes be
long gone by the 60's most places.

Non-Bell-System companies were slower to change because of the equipment
costs.

http://sanfranciscohistory.tribe.net/thread/03bcd65a-e3b7-498a-9bc7-186eded5bf2c

And additional historical factoid--among the several blocks of numbers
that could not be used were 1xx-xxxx (line noise used to be a problem so
an initial "1" was used only for local stuff "information" used to be
114, "Long Distance" was 110, "Repair" was 116. 118 got a "milliwatt",
I think.

0xx-xxxx could not be used because "0" got the local operator.

The second digit could not be a 0 or a 1 because that is how the
switches knew whether to wait for 10 digits, or fire on 7. Area codes
had to be a 0 or a 1 in the second digit.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
I don't think it was done everywhere at once--and it didn't really
matter outside of the local area with direct distance dialing until new
prefixes were opened.  Prefix-per-exchange had for practical purposes be
long gone by the 60's most places.

The change from using an exchange name to all digits required no
equipment alteration at all. Regardless of letters or numbers, it was
all digits to the machine. The change was only in directories and how
people listed their numbers.

Direct Distance Dialing was not the only factor. In places were
operators handled toll calls, they were dialing them, not passing them
by voice. They needed the proper name and couldn't risk confusion, as
was happening at the time. (Some of the details get technical and
beyond the scope of this newsgroup, but I'll elaborate if there is
interest).

I'm not sure what you mean by "prefix per exchange". But there were a
great many places well into the 1980s where there was only one prefix
per district.

Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
Non-Bell-System companies were slower to change because of the equipment
costs.

As stated, going to ANC required no equipment changes.

Other improvements in the 1960s did require equipment upgrades. But
such upgrades also saved money and improved service. In some cases
the non-Bell companies were ahead.

[Premier Bush]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
I don't think it was done everywhere at once--and it didn't really
matter outside of the local area with direct distance dialing until
new prefixes were opened. Prefix-per-exchange had for practical
purposes be long gone by the 60's most places.

The change from using an exchange name to all digits required no
equipment alteration at all. Regardless of letters or numbers, it was
all digits to the machine. The change was only in directories and how
people listed their numbers.
Direct Distance Dialing was not the only factor. In places were
operators handled toll calls, they were dialing them, not passing them
by voice. They needed the proper name and couldn't risk confusion, as
was happening at the time. (Some of the details get technical and
beyond the scope of this newsgroup, but I'll elaborate if there is
interest).
I'm not sure what you mean by "prefix per exchange". But there were a
great many places well into the 1980s where there was only one prefix
per district.

What is a district?

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Premier Bush
What is a district?

A neighborhood, town, or region, served by a physical telephone
exchange. Smaller communities had only one prefix per district, that
is, everyone had the same prefix on their phone number (eg WHipporwhil
2-)

A prefix can serve 10,000 lines (WH 2-0000 to WH 2-9999).

Larger communities had multiple prefixes, so people would have
different prefixes (eg WHipporwhil 2-, WHipporwhil 3-, SParrow 4-,
etc).


A problem today is that alternative (non Bell) carriers each get
assigned a block of 10,000 lines with a prefix, though most never use
anywhere near that much. So your town may have many exchanges
assigned to it. This is a big factor in why we have 10 digit dialing
and tiny area codes today.

[Premier Bush]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Premier Bush
What is a district?

A neighborhood, town, or region, served by a physical telephone
exchange. Smaller communities had only one prefix per district, that
is, everyone had the same prefix on their phone number (eg WHipporwhil
2-)
A prefix can serve 10,000 lines (WH 2-0000 to WH 2-9999).
Larger communities had multiple prefixes, so people would have
different prefixes (eg WHipporwhil 2-, WHipporwhil 3-, SParrow 4-,
etc).
A problem today is that alternative (non Bell) carriers each get
assigned a block of 10,000 lines with a prefix, though most never use
anywhere near that much. So your town may have many exchanges
assigned to it. This is a big factor in why we have 10 digit dialing
and tiny area codes today.

The reason I was asking is that Mena, AR only had one prefix (394) until at
least the mid to late 90s. This prefix not only served the town of Mena but
most of northern Polk county including rural areas. Now there are 3 or 4
prefixes in the area.

[markrobt+ (Mark Roberts)]

Premier Bush <***@yahoo.com> had written:
| ***@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
| > On Feb 23, 6:37 am, "Premier Bush" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
| >
| >> What is a district?

The more precise term is "rate center".

| The reason I was asking is that Mena, AR only had one prefix (394) until at
| least the mid to late 90s. This prefix not only served the town of Mena but
| most of northern Polk county including rural areas. Now there are 3 or 4
| prefixes in the area.

That's not so uncommon -- I was astounded to discover a few years
ago that Trenton, Missouri added 358 and 339 on top of its legacy
ELmwood 9 (359) exchange. That's before counting in cellular phones,
1000-number blocks to CLECs, and so on. Trenton is not exactly what
you would call a fast growing area; its population has been around
6-7,000 for the last 50 years or more. Everything else in the
Trenton rate center (most of the SW corner of Grundy County)
is rural and has been losing population.

In California, the notion of a rate center and an exchange can get
somewhat tangled. You can have multiple central offices serving a
rate center -- which is, in fact, the case in San Francisco and
Oakland. You can also have a central office serving multiple rate
centers -- the central office (Oakland 13) serving my house
is one of them.

[b***@hotmail.com]

In Belleville MI, in the period from 1966 when we moved in until 1972
or 1973, we could dial long distance direct, but the operator would
intercept the call and ask for your number. The equipment in those
OXbow exchanges did not capture the dialer's number for billing until
the switch was upgraded. That was also about the time touch tone
dialing was made available there by Michigan Bell.

All number dialing did involve some equipment changes when the local
direct dialing was only five digits within an exchange. My exwife grew
up in rural Branch county Michigan, and it wasn't until the 1980's
that seven digit dialing was finally required there.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
In Belleville MI, in the period from 1966 when we moved in until 1972
or 1973, we could dial long distance direct, but the operator would
intercept the call and ask for your number. The equipment in those
OXbow exchanges did not capture the dialer's number for billing until
the switch was upgraded. That was also about the time touch tone
dialing was made available there by Michigan Bell.

Capturing the caller's phone number, known as ANI (automatic number
identification), required complex extra equipment. Long distance
dialing used operators as you described to record the caller's
number. Eventually ANI was universal.

We forget that electronics was very expensive in the past and in many
cases it was cheaper to use humans, such as in the above example.

Post by b***@hotmail.com
All number dialing did involve some equipment changes when the local
direct dialing was only five digits within an exchange. My exwife grew
up in rural Branch county Michigan, and it wasn't until the 1980's
that seven digit dialing was finally required there.

Actually, not too much was required in five-digit exchanges. Phone
numbers actually remained five digits, the extra two were used
externally to address the exchange. Within the exchange, if you dial
the full 7 digits, the first were simply ignored. This saved them the
expense of building out the switch train.

Much of the work was not done in the local exchange, but rather in
"tandem" offices, which interconnected individual local exchanges.
For example, many places had a 1+ (or a 11n) access code for long
distance. This merely connected you out of the local exchange into
the tandem office, and the tandem switch would receive and process
your 10 digit request.

[Richard Carlson, N9JIG]

When I first started to travel in the UP of Michigan in the late 1970's
and early 1980's the payphones there had you dial the number first then
quickly drop the coins after the line started to ring. It was also my
first experience with push-button payphones. Not TouchTone, but pulse
dialing with a button pad similar to the TouchTone pads of the day.

This was confusing since at the time my home area (Chicagoland) pay
phones still required coins before you received a dial tones. (This was
changed a bit later when they raised the rates from a dime to 15 cents.
The state required dial tone first before they approved the new rates.)
It was a few years later before TouchTone payphones became more
prevalent in the area.

When my Dad had his TV repair business in the late 1950's his phone
number was "Wheeling 82". Later it was "Wheeling 1982" and eventually
became "Lehigh 1282" and then "Lehigh 7-1282". I found some of his old
business cards with the progression of phone numbers in his vacuum tube
case. These numbers matched the growth of the town we lived in. I can
recall the time in the early 1970's when a new exchange was established
that really caused a lot of consternation in the area.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Richard Carlson, N9JIG
When I first started to travel in the UP of Michigan in the late 1970's
and early 1980's the payphones there had you dial the number first then
quickly drop the coins after the line started to ring. It was also my
first experience with push-button payphones. Not TouchTone, but pulse
dialing with a button pad similar to the TouchTone pads of the day.

City pay phones tended to have a holding bucket inside of it. If the
line was busy or no answer your coins would be refunded from that
bucket.

Rural pay phones were simpler, the money just dropped directly into
the cash box. Service was arranged so that you put in your dime or 2
nickels immediately when the phone was answered. The transmitter was
cut off so you couldn't talk to them, depositing the coins would
connect the transmitter. This was a simpler phone and central office
arrangement.

Dial-tone first at pay phones was encouraged by govt to allow pay
phones to be used for emergency calls to police without a coin.

[Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Dial-tone first at pay phones was encouraged by govt to allow pay
phones to be used for emergency calls to police without a coin.

I think that was (in California in any case) mandated by the 911 movement.

Seems like in earlier days the "0" operator could be reached without a
coin, but I'm not sure about that.

[Rich Piehl]

Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:25:12 -0600, Rich Piehl

Post by Rich Piehl
In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones.

Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

You're right - typo. Early to mid 60's.

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[richard]

Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:25:12 -0600, Rich Piehl

Post by Rich Piehl
In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones.

Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

Hardly. 1963 or perhaps a tad before, saw the transition from dial to
pushbutton. My aunt was a phone operator in Chicago and about 1962, I
had my first taste of a pushbutton phone at the O'hare oasis.

And you must understand something about Cinci, when everyone else
changes something, Cinci won't do it for another 5 years at least.

"If it was announced today that the world would end next week, I would
simply move to Cincinnati because they are 5 years behind the times".
Mark Twain.

It's all about tradition.

--

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.
Mark Twain(attributed)

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by richard
Hardly. 1963 or perhaps a tad before, saw the transition from dial to
pushbutton. My aunt was a phone operator in Chicago and about 1962, I
had my first taste of a pushbutton phone at the O'hare oasis.

Touch Tone (the trademark name for 'pushbutton' dialing) was only in
one or two exchanges nationally in 1962 as trial experiments. (There
was an earlier trial in 1950 in Media, Pa that was not repeated).
Touch Tone was rolled out very slowly in the 1960s, but the pace
picked up in the 1970s when it became available in more locations.
(The phones at the 1964 World's Fair in NYC were Touch Tone to show it
off). Not all subscribers took it, and some subscribers to this day
still use rotary dial phones. A great many people have a mixture of
phone types in the house, perhaps an older dial phone that is
hardwired.

In 1962 there were still a number exchanges that were manual. The
last Bell System exchange to go dial was Santa Catalina Island off of
California, I think it was around 1980 or so. I believe it took so
long because it was hard to get equipment out to the exchange, they
had to wait for a packaged miniature electronic exchange to be
perfected. Some non-Bell locations took longer.

Post by richard
And you must understand something about Cinci, when everyone else
changes something, Cinci won't do it for another 5 years at least.

Well the 'panel' type of dial office implemented in Cinci. in 1931 was
state of the art for its day. It was a 'common-control' system where
the progress of a call was controlled by sophisticated relay-logic,
more advanced than the "step by step" dial switches used elsewhere.
This provided greater routing flexibility in a city network and an
automated interface to remaining manual exchanges.

[Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Well the 'panel' type of dial office implemented in Cinci. in 1931 was
state of the art for its day. It was a 'common-control' system where
the progress of a call was controlled by sophisticated relay-logic,
more advanced than the "step by step" dial switches used elsewhere.
This provided greater routing flexibility in a city network and an
automated interface to remaining manual exchanges.

San Francisco-Pine (or maybe it was Bush) had a panel machine into the
late 1970's I think. Not real sure when I visited it.

[The Chief Instigator]

Post by Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:25:12 -0600, Rich Piehl

Post by Rich Piehl
In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones.

Early to mid-'80s?! I thought this ended everywhere in the whole country
around 1963.

Not quite: Houston didn't start the changeover until late 1968. (My
parents' SU 2 is now 782, and my wife's line is in that ten
thousand...which means if we get broadband, it'll have to be wireless,
since we're about 13,000 cable feet from the Sunset CO, which rules
out DSL. If we were across the street, we'd be in Prescott, which CO
is less than half the distance of Sunset.)

[Steve Riner]

On Feb 22, 7:25 pm, Rich Piehl

Post by Rich Piehl

Post by H.B. Elkins

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St.  This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St.  The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".

I'm not quite sure about Cincy, but I always found the use of numbered exchanges
back in the old days to be fascinating.
My grandmother had an old dial telephone that stated her number as INgersoll
4-2442 (hard to believe I can remember her phone number when she's been dead for
years). It took me awhile to figure out how that translated to the number that I
knew for her until I looked at the face of the dial phone and saw that I and N
corresponded to 4 and 6, and our phone prefix in my county was 464. That
explained "INgersoll 4-" in the number.
Why did they name phone exchanges instead of just using numbers like they do
now?

In the early to mid-80's St. Louis also morphed from named exchanges to
numbered ones.  People often used their phone exchange name as a way of
determining socio-economic status.  Kinda' sad, really, but St. Louis
has always been a city in which where you live elevates you, lowers you,
labels you a snob or wealthy, or poor.  Zip codes and, before that, two
digit postal codes were never quite localized enough to serve the
purpose.  After the phones went to all numerics much of that capability
was lost.
And in the mid to late 50's St. Louis went from 5 to 7 digit phone
numbers.  It was the exchange and then for numerics.
Take care,
Rich
God bless the USA
--
That's one of the problems in this country
The nuts don't know they're nuts.
                       --Jeff Foxworthy- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

Steve Riner
Pueblo West CO

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread. People began to miss the personal touch of the past. The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.

People saw all numbers as dehumanizing. People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".

In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind. But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.

While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

[Rich Piehl]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread. People began to miss the personal touch of the past. The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.
People saw all numbers as dehumanizing. People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".
In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind. But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.
While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

I was just reading through some web sites on a couple of demolished
malls near where I grew up. One it particular opened in the early 60's
and had a design that was was panned when it open as lacking the
character that older buildings had, and it was ugly, and gaudy, bad use
of color etc. In reading through one web site now the author, an
architect, was lamenting that the mall had to meet its demise as it was
a great design that should have been saved.

Time marches on.

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[g***@aol.com]

On Feb 24, 1:35 pm, Rich Piehl

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread.  People began to miss the personal touch of the past.  The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.
People saw all numbers as dehumanizing.  People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".
In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind.  But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.
While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

I was just reading through some web sites on a couple of demolishedmallsnear where I grew up.  One it particular opened in the early 60's
and had a design that was was panned when it open as lacking the
character that older buildings had, and it was ugly, and gaudy, bad use
of color etc.  

Too bad...some people just don't know taste. As the bix box centers
keep comin';...

In reading through one web site now the author, an

architect, was lamenting that the mall had to meet its demise as it was
a great design that should have been saved.

Timely topic here, as I had posted on Southern California malls here
this month.

Time marches on.
Take care,
Rich
God bless the USA

Seconded!

[Rich Piehl]

On Feb 24, 1:35 pm, Rich Piehl

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread. People began to miss the personal touch of the past. The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.
People saw all numbers as dehumanizing. People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".
In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind. But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.
While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

I was just reading through some web sites on a couple of demolishedmallsnear where I grew up. One it particular opened in the early 60's
and had a design that was was panned when it open as lacking the
character that older buildings had, and it was ugly, and gaudy, bad use
of color etc.

Too bad...some people just don't know taste. As the bix box centers
keep comin';...
In reading through one web site now the author, an

architect, was lamenting that the mall had to meet its demise as it was
a great design that should have been saved.

Timely topic here, as I had posted on Southern California malls here
this month.

Time marches on.
Take care,
Rich
God bless the USA

Seconded!

Here's one of the links if you're interested:

http://www.builtstlouis.net/riverroadsmall01.html

I'll try to find the other one tomorrow.

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[Rich Piehl]

On Feb 24, 1:35 pm, Rich Piehl

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread. People began to miss the personal touch of the past. The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.
People saw all numbers as dehumanizing. People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".
In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind. But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.
While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

I was just reading through some web sites on a couple of demolishedmallsnear where I grew up. One it particular opened in the early 60's
and had a design that was was panned when it open as lacking the
character that older buildings had, and it was ugly, and gaudy, bad use
of color etc.

Too bad...some people just don't know taste. As the bix box centers
keep comin';...
In reading through one web site now the author, an

architect, was lamenting that the mall had to meet its demise as it was
a great design that should have been saved.

Timely topic here, as I had posted on Southern California malls here
this month.

Time marches on.
Take care,
Rich
God bless the USA

Seconded!

Here's a few more of the links I was looking at:

http://www.builtstlouis.net/riverroadsmall03.html
http://www.builtstlouis.net/riverroadsmall02.html
http://www.builtstlouis.net/riverroadsmall01.html

If you have any questions about the mall I lived close to there for most
of its life, so I saw it in its prime and its demise. Let me know and
I'll try to answer 'em.

Take care,
Rich

god bless the USA

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[Elmer]

On Feb 29, 4:41 pm, Rich Piehl

On Feb 24, 1:35 pm, Rich Piehl

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread.  People began to miss the personal touch of the past.  The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.
People saw all numbers as dehumanizing.  People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".
In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind.  But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.
While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

I was just reading through some web sites on a couple of demolishedmallsnear where I grew up.  One it particular opened in the early 60's
and had a design that was was panned when it open as lacking the
character that older buildings had, and it was ugly, and gaudy, bad use
of color etc.  

Too bad...some people just don't know taste. As the bix box centers
keep comin';...
In reading through one web site now the author, an

architect, was lamenting that the mall had to meet its demise as it was
a great design that should have been saved.

It's a shame that designs from the 1960's are not appreciated today.
From the pictures, the mall looked very beautiful, especially the
colorful tile work. Such a tragedy that it was destroyed! What is
being built in it's place?

Elmer

[Rich Piehl]

On Feb 29, 4:41 pm, Rich Piehl

On Feb 24, 1:35 pm, Rich Piehl

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Steve Riner
In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
emotional debate.

In those years businesses were getting bigger and chains more
widespread. People began to miss the personal touch of the past. The
"Andy Griffith" TV show with its quaint town of Mayberry was popular
(and remains so) for that reason.
People saw all numbers as dehumanizing. People also resented giving
bills printed on punch cards, and were insulted by the warning "DO NOT
FOLD SPINDLE OR MUTILATE".
In the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, technology and automation were seen as
wonders for mankind. But in the 1960s attitudes were changing.
While the anti-ANC forces got some publicity, the system still changed
over.

I was just reading through some web sites on a couple of demolishedmallsnear where I grew up. One it particular opened in the early 60's
and had a design that was was panned when it open as lacking the
character that older buildings had, and it was ugly, and gaudy, bad use
of color etc.

Too bad...some people just don't know taste. As the bix box centers
keep comin';...
In reading through one web site now the author, an

architect, was lamenting that the mall had to meet its demise as it was
a great design that should have been saved.

It's a shame that designs from the 1960's are not appreciated today.
From the pictures, the mall looked very beautiful, especially the
colorful tile work. Such a tragedy that it was destroyed! What is
being built in it's place?
Elmer

As I said when it was built it was kinda' panned architecturally.
People didn't like that modernesque stuff at that time, claimed it was
too bland.

Take care,
Rich

God bless the USA

[markrobt+ (Mark Roberts)]

Steve Riner <***@msn.com> had written:
|
| In the early 1960s, when California was beginning the process of
| changing from named exchanges to "all-number dialing" (which is how it
| was promoted at the time), there were some politicians who fought the
| changeover. The process was delayed for a couple of years while the
| politicos in Sacramento fought over it, and IIRC S.I. Hayakawa, who
| later became an ineffectual one-term U.S. Senator from California,
| made his name by fighting the changeover. It was a surprisingly
| emotional debate.

It happened in 1963-64. The matter went to the PUC which finally
approved all-number dialing on March 17, 1964 after issuing a
restraining order on September 30, 1963 preventing (temporarily) the
"conversion" of exchanges to ANC. Apparently the catalyst for that
restraining order was the plan of Pacific Telephone & Telegraph
to "convert" San Francisco exchanges to ANC that October. Based on
what I have seen from East Bay telephone directories of the time,
East Bay exchanges may already have been "converted" by then.

I put the word "conversion" in quotes because all it amounted to
was dropping the letter designations of the exchanges. There was no
practical effect on telephone users, who had to dial all seven
digits regardless of how the exchanges were labeled.

The Hearst-owned San Francisco Examiner was one of those
campaigning against ANC. It published a multi-part series of
articles, beginning February 17, 1963, written by someone
identified as J.P. Neil, a registered professional electrical
engineering, who was against ANC.

There was an Anti-Digit Dialing League that took up the
cause. Its president was Tiburon attorney Hiram Johnson III.
You should know that name from California history.

The PUC decision didn't keep people from using the names afterwards,
though the use of exchange names did dwindle over time. I've heard
a tape of KCBS radio from 1968, when it was still broadcasting from
the Palace Hotel, advertising its studio number as "YUkon 2-7012".
Indeed, 982 and 986 are still prefixes often encountered in that
vicinity, though the hotel's own phone number is now 512-1111.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by markrobt+ (Mark Roberts)
It happened in 1963-64. The matter went to the PUC which finally
approved all-number dialing on March 17, 1964 after issuing a
restraining order on September 30, 1963 preventing (temporarily) the
"conversion" of exchanges to ANC. Apparently the catalyst for that
restraining order was the plan of Pacific Telephone & Telegraph
to "convert" San Francisco exchanges to ANC that October. Based on
what I have seen from East Bay telephone directories of the time,
East Bay exchanges may already have been "converted" by then.

What of the methods used was to list new subscribers in ANC while
keeping old subscribers as letters. This way the changed was
introduced gradually. Any newly created exchanges were all-number.

Post by markrobt+ (Mark Roberts)
The Hearst-owned San Francisco Examiner was one of those
campaigning against ANC. It published a multi-part series of
articles, beginning February 17, 1963, written by someone
identified as J.P. Neil, a registered professional electrical
engineering, who was against ANC.

Any chance those articles may be found on-line? I guess something
from that era is only on microfilm, probably in a Calif library. (The
NYT is available on-line all the way back for a fee and in some
libraries.)

[Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.]

Post by markrobt+ (Mark Roberts)
There was an Anti-Digit Dialing League that took up the
cause. Its president was Tiburon attorney Hiram Johnson III.
You should know that name from California history.

One of the arguments was that the human mind could not remember numbers,
letters and words were necessary for remember phone numbers. (Yes, that
was and is internally inconsistent, but living in San Francisco, you get
used to that).

In one of the court cases, as I recall it, a number-phobe was aske what
his license plate number was (California passenger care plates in those
days were three-digits, three-letters (or a mix with three-letters
three-digits).

The witness could only recall the three digits.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
One of the arguments was that the human mind could not remember numbers,
letters and words were necessary for remember phone numbers.  (Yes, that
was and is internally inconsistent, but living in San Francisco, you get
used to that).

Letters were used in the first place because the engineers believed
seven digits were too many to remember. This was back in 1922.

Later on the Bell System did tests and found ANC was not a memory
problem, and said the 1922 tests were wrong.

Today, people don't seem to have a problem remembering 7 or even 10
digits. Of course today a great many people have telephones with
memory dialing.

As an aside, one of the features of electronic switching was speed
dialing, where two digits would zip out a full number. In the days of
rotary dials this may have been attraction. The service is still
offered, but I suspect has very few takers due to memory phones.

Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.
In one of the court cases, as I recall it, a number-phobe was aske what
his license plate number was (California passenger care plates in those
days were three-digits, three-letters (or a mix with three-letters
three-digits).
The witness could only recall the three digits.

I could remember my old license plate, but it was three letters
following by three numbers. I have no idea what my replacement plate
is, being 7 mixed characters. I was tempted to special a plate with
my old number on it, but I then realized I had no real need to know my
license plate; if I needed it, I could get out my registration card.
It's not something I'm asked for.

It would seem stupid to ask someone in court what their license plate
was. I'd guess most people wouldn't know (unless it was a vanity
plate or the person was obsessive-compulsive and just had to memorize
things like that.)

As an aside, a neighbor had a vanity plate with two letters (her
initials). After she died, I was tempted to order that for myself,
but the state's charge for vanity plate is expensive and it seemed
like a waste of money. I didn't even bother with one of their photo
plates, not as much as a vanity plate, but still a premium.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by H.B. Elkins
Why did they name phone exchanges instead of just using numbers like they do
now?

Basically, they felt a name and numbers would be easier to remember
than 7 plain digits. That is, people would find it easier to remember
PEnnsylvania 6-5000 than 736-5000.

Also, before dials, exchanges had names. People would ask for "get me
Main 1234". In small towns it would be "get me 1234" or perhaps "234"
in smaller towns.

In the Bell System, major dial service began in New York City, which
was big enough to require 7 digits. Initially, the style was
PENnsylvania 1234, that is, the exchange was 3 letters. Later, as
they ran short, it became PEnnsylvania 6-1234.

The Bell System got rid of exchange names for several reasons:

1) As the system expanded in the 1950s, some areas were running out of
usable combinations, for example 57n.

2) With the growth of long distance and approaching of direct-dialed
long distance, some local-based names might be misunderstood
elsewhere. For example, Phila had BAring 2 which was pronounced
"bearing" (based on a neighborhood in West Phila). Someone far away,
not knowing the local quirk, would dial BE2 instead of BA 2. There
were many examples across the country.

3) Overseas dials had different lettering would cause even more
confusion.

Many people have favorite names. As someone mentioned, certain names
had class and people didn't want to lose them. (For example, CHestnut
Hill in Philadelphia). A lot of people objected to the switch as
being dehumanizing.

Philadelphia was the last city converted, in 1980.

Ironically, the tiny letters are now widely used for businesses and
also voice mail. Q and Z have been added to the dial.

Thanks to all for the responses.

P.S. The work need in the 1950s to convert the Bell System to Direct
Distance Dialing was enormous. Back then, many smaller cities and
towns had fewer than 7 digit phone numbers, For DDD, everyone had to
have a uniform ten digit number.

For many years small towns would have a 7 digit number, but locals
needed to dial only 5 digits. That is, 235-9011 would be dialed
locally as 5-9011, only outsiders needed to dial 235-9011. With the
1980s growth of faxes, cell phones, computer lines, and alternative
carriers, they ran out of numbers and eliminated that option. (Every
alternative carrier needs a block of 10,000 numbers even if few are
used; that's the big reason for number shortages.)

Today many people must dial 10 digits even on local calls thanks to
area code overlays. Other people may only need 7, but their home area
code has been split into such a tiny sliver that 10 digits are usually
needed anyway.

A few states still have only one area code.

I used to think highways should have a sign denoting area code
borders; but that was when there weren't so many.

[EAST COAST HIVE MIND]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Today many people must dial 10 digits even on local calls thanks to
area code overlays. Other people may only need 7, but their home area
code has been split into such a tiny sliver that 10 digits are usually
needed anyway.

An interesting thing with my mobile. I can dial seven digits for calls,
but only if I'm physically located in the Poughkeepsie LATA-once I leave
it(say I go to Rockland County, which I frequently do), I have to dial
10 digits.

[PAD]

Post by H.B. Elkins

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".

I'm not quite sure about Cincy, but I always found the use of numbered exchanges
back in the old days to be fascinating.
My grandmother had an old dial telephone that stated her number as INgersoll
4-2442 (hard to believe I can remember her phone number when she's been dead for
years). It took me awhile to figure out how that translated to the number that I
knew for her until I looked at the face of the dial phone and saw that I and N
corresponded to 4 and 6, and our phone prefix in my county was 464. That
explained "INgersoll 4-" in the number.
Why did they name phone exchanges instead of just using numbers like they do
now?

Using names for phone exchanges made it easier for operators to remember
how to connect phone calls when all calls were handled by a human
operator, before direct dial for local calls.

'Member lines like ,"Operator, give me Murray Hill 8-1234, please" from
old movies?

Names carried over when phones got rotary dials... until they went all
digital ;-)

Pete

[Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".
Would anyone know if that building is still in use as are the
exchanges of "Cherry" and "Parkway"?
Avon, Bramble, East, Hemlock, Hiland, Kirby, Main, Melrose Jefferson
(may be dial), Montana, South, University, Valley, Wabash, West, and
Woodburn.
Any comments appreciated. [public replies, please] Thanks!

I did a little "googling" and came up with a bunch of history stuff like
this:

http://www.scripophily.net/cinnbell.html

[k***@lycos.com]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St. This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St. The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".
Would anyone know if that building is still in use as are the
exchanges of "Cherry" and "Parkway"?
Avon, Bramble, East, Hemlock, Hiland, Kirby, Main, Melrose Jefferson
(may be dial), Montana, South, University, Valley, Wabash, West, and
Woodburn.
Any comments appreciated. [public replies, please] Thanks!

Doesn't answer your specific question but gives background on the
history of telephone exchanges and use of names vs. numbers:
http://www.privateline.com/TelephoneHistory3A/numbers.html

[k***@lycos.com]

Also, take a look at these:
http://ourwebhome.com/TENP/TENproject.html
http://ourwebhome.com/TENP/Recommended.html

[Random Waftings Of Bunker Blasts]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Avon, Bramble, East, Hemlock, Hiland, Kirby, Main, Melrose Jefferson
(may be dial), Montana, South, University, Valley, Wabash, West, and
Woodburn.

I think Highland and Sterling were both in Campbell County. Also, I think
Axel was right in the river cities around Covington and Newport.

[Gary V]

Grand Rapids had several exchanges - EMpire (our home), CHerry,
GLendale, and there must have been at least one more on the south end
that I can't remember. When they "officially" changed over to all
numbers I can't remember, but I know there was a fairly long period
where some people would use numbers and others letters.

[Archie Leach]

Post by Gary V
Grand Rapids had several exchanges - EMpire (our home), CHerry,
GLendale, and there must have been at least one more on the south end
that I can't remember. When they "officially" changed over to all
numbers I can't remember, but I know there was a fairly long period
where some people would use numbers and others letters.

And the GLendale "45x" exchanges live on in GR.

[Elmer]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
OFF TOPIC
Because many participants here on this newsgroup are familiar with
Is anyone familiar with the telephone layout of Cincinnati?
I got a book describing the cutover of the Cherry and Parkway 'panel'
dial office at the 1931 telephone building at 209 W. 7th St.  This
served not only that exchange, but also parts of the Main office west
of Elm St and south of of Fifth St, and the West office area south of
Liberty St.  The "Canal" exchange numbers were converted to "Cherry".
Would anyone know if that building is still in use as are the
exchanges of "Cherry" and  "Parkway"?
Avon, Bramble, East, Hemlock, Hiland, Kirby, Main, Melrose Jefferson
(may be dial), Montana, South, University, Valley, Wabash, West, and
Woodburn.
Any comments appreciated.  [public replies, please]  Thanks!

Some of us Road Geeks are also Phone Phreaks. Here's two Yahoo groups
where there's lots of discussion about phones, past and present. If
you find this thread interesting, you'll love 'em:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/centraloffice/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/singingwires/

Elmer

[SP Cook]

Post by Elmer
Some of us Road Geeks are also Phone Phreaks.

Relating this to road travel, back in the day before the (stupid,
IMHO) break up of the Bell System, it was interesting to see the
different versions of the company in different states. You also never
appreciated "Ma Bell" until you traveled somewhere in the 20% of the
country that was not under her control. Pay phones were often
confusing, operators clueless, and service generally 10-15 behind the
current state of the art. While non-Bell areas were generally rural,
there were, IIRC, many medium sized places that were non-Bell. These
included all of Hawaii, Las Vegas, Raleigh-Durham, Lexington, Tampa
Bay, and many beach areas. Brands I remember include the nearly Bell
level General System/GTE, and smaller fry like Central Telephone/
Centel, Continental Telephone/Contel, Allied Telephone/Alltell (which
morphed into a cell phone company), and Citizens. Sprint was once a
local phone company as well. Cincinnati was a special oddity, as
Cincinnati Bell was a seperate company from AT&T.

A weird place I used to travel to a lot was the Tri-Cities area of
Tennessee and Virginia. The original phone company was called the
"Intermountain Telephone Company", which later was bought by Sprint.
The payphones were these weird German made monsters, like two sizes
larger than a standard one. The coin button had a mark for a pfenning
(sp?) engraved on it, covered with a cents sticker. The phone book
was called "the red book", and was always red. The operators were
obviously locally based, you could tell by the accents. Making a long
distance call from either a pay phone or a hotel room with a credit
card was pretty much impossible. I had to pay with coins, which my
employer at the time would not reimburse for.

SP Cook

[Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.]

Post by SP Cook
While non-Bell areas were generally rural,
there were, IIRC, many medium sized places that were non-Bell. These
included all of Hawaii, Las Vegas, Raleigh-Durham, Lexington, Tampa
Bay, and many beach areas. Brands I remember include the nearly Bell
level General System/GTE, and smaller fry like Central Telephone/
Centel, Continental Telephone/Contel, Allied Telephone/Alltell (which
morphed into a cell phone company), and Citizens. Sprint was once a
local phone company as well. Cincinnati was a special oddity, as
Cincinnati Bell was a seperate company from AT&T.

My favorites included the California Water and Telephone Company--Cal
Drip and Tinkle.

The Sierra were full of little bitty companies and co-ops. I recall one
time calling for a repairman (I was in Los Angeles) and having the
operator (probably also part owner and repair-man's wife) tell me that
he had gone fishing. When I asked about his return (we were supposed to
get stuff fixed in two hours, believe it or not) she said it shouldn't
be too long, "the only took one six-pack with them).

[Archie Leach]

Post by Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.

Post by SP Cook
While non-Bell areas were generally rural,
there were, IIRC, many medium sized places that were non-Bell. These
included all of Hawaii, Las Vegas, Raleigh-Durham, Lexington, Tampa
Bay, and many beach areas. Brands I remember include the nearly Bell
level General System/GTE, and smaller fry like Central Telephone/
Centel, Continental Telephone/Contel, Allied Telephone/Alltell (which
morphed into a cell phone company), and Citizens. Sprint was once a
local phone company as well. Cincinnati was a special oddity, as
Cincinnati Bell was a seperate company from AT&T.

My favorites included the California Water and Telephone Company--Cal
Drip and Tinkle.
The Sierra were full of little bitty companies and co-ops. I recall one
time calling for a repairman (I was in Los Angeles) and having the
operator (probably also part owner and repair-man's wife) tell me that
he had gone fishing. When I asked about his return (we were supposed to
get stuff fixed in two hours, believe it or not) she said it shouldn't
be too long, "the only took one six-pack with them).

TMML!!

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by SP Cook
Relating this to road travel, back in the day before the (stupid,
IMHO) break up of the Bell System,

The Bell System break up cost us home consumers a great deal of
money. The beneficiaries of the breakup were large organizations.

Yes, long distance rates came down, but they were dropping
dramatically before the breakup as a result of new technology Bell
developed, and would continue to drop. Equipment rental was going
away as well, breakup or not.

Communications policy was previously set by Congress and the FCC. The
breakup switched that policy-making to the courts, who were not
equipped to handle it.

Post by SP Cook
it was interesting to see the
different versions of the company in different states.  You also never
appreciated "Ma Bell" until you traveled somewhere in the 20% of the
country that was not under her control.  

The Bell System covered the majority of the population of the country,
but the "Independents" covered the vast majority of the land area,
including most rural places.

As stated, some Independents were large corporations, such as General
Telephone & Electronics (which also owned Sylvania). Some were tiny
co-ops.

Verizon bought out GTE. Many of the smaller independents merged
together. Also, many branched into other fields such as cable TV.


If one goes back in time far enough, they'll remember Western Union
desks in major hotels and the like to take telegrams. Until about
roughly 1960, it was cheaper to send a quick message via telegram than
by long distance telephone. In the 1960s, message telegraph service
costs went up while long distance charges went down, making calling
cheaper, and obviously easier.

Does anyone remember if Western Union had desks in the early turnpike
rest stops? Such stops had plenty of pay phones.

Also, do turnpike rest stops have _many_ pay phones today? Obviously
they've kept a few, but they don't need the huge banks inside and
outside as they once had. If they had phone booths, they've probably
been replaced by simple wallmounts.

I recall the NJ Tpk northern end Vince Lombardi service area had
actual phone booths in the parking lot not that long ago; I wonder if
they still do.

[Richard Carlson, N9JIG]

In article

Also, do turnpike rest stops have many pay phones today? Obviously
they've kept a few, but they don't need the huge banks inside and
outside as they once had. If they had phone booths, they've probably
been replaced by simple wallmounts.
I recall the NJ Tpk northern end Vince Lombardi service area had
actual phone booths in the parking lot not that long ago; I wonder if
they still do.

The Illinois Tollway Oasis's (Oasii?) have several sets of pay phones
each. In the main overhead buildings there are usually a couple
free-standing banks, some are side-by-side, some are in a quad. There
are also some pay phones mounted on walls here and there. There are also
a couple of pay phones inside and at least one outside at the Mobil
stations at the Oasis.

Of course we all can't forget the launching of the phone booth at the
Des Plaines Oasis as seen in the ultimate roadgeek movie, "The Blues
Brothers"!

[Scott in SoCal]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:54:21 -0600, "Richard Carlson, N9JIG"

Post by Richard Carlson, N9JIG
The Illinois Tollway Oasis's (Oasii?) have several sets of pay phones
each.

Yes, I remember them. LOTS of pay phones.

I'm surprised they didn't rip at least some of them out when they
rebuily/remodeled the oases.

Post by Richard Carlson, N9JIG
Of course we all can't forget the launching of the phone booth at the
Des Plaines Oasis as seen in the ultimate roadgeek movie, "The Blues
Brothers"!

Is that where that scene was shot?

Learn something new every day... :)

[Richard Carlson, N9JIG]

Post by Scott in SoCal
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:54:21 -0600, "Richard Carlson, N9JIG"

Post by Richard Carlson, N9JIG
The Illinois Tollway Oasis's (Oasii?) have several sets of pay phones
each.

Yes, I remember them. LOTS of pay phones.
I'm surprised they didn't rip at least some of them out when they
rebuily/remodeled the oases.

Post by Richard Carlson, N9JIG
Of course we all can't forget the launching of the phone booth at the
Des Plaines Oasis as seen in the ultimate roadgeek movie, "The Blues
Brothers"!

Is that where that scene was shot?
Learn something new every day... :)

The approaches to the scene were as well as the explosion itself, the
ending part where they are picking up the change was filmed at a sound
stage in L.A.