Mass Pike / I-84 (Exit 9) Frustration

[Rothman]

On the Saturday after Thanksgiving, I went to Boston with the wife and
kids. Took a trip back on the Pike and needed to head down I-84 into
CT (Exit 9). The trip was totally uneventful until we passed the exit
for I-290/I-395/MA-12 at around 4:30 p.m. (Exit 10). There didn't
seem to be any flood of "rush hour" traffic entering the Pike from
Exit 10. Traffic was stop-and-go for about eight of the 10 or so
miles between Exit 10 and 9.

Having grown up in Massachusetts (and remembering when there was an
I-86 and MA/CT-52), I've slowly watched this intersection get worse
and worse with backups onto the Pike's mainline, holiday or not. Part
of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting to
access the Fast Lane.

Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

[k***@att.net]

I'd love to know! I was stuck at this very exit once myself. NEVER
AGAIN! Is taking US 20 West from Worcester/Auburn to I-84 in
Sturbridge (joining at Exit 3 of I-84) that much better as an
alternative?

[Paul Anderson]

In article

Is taking US 20 West from Worcester/Auburn to I-84 in Sturbridge
(joining at Exit 3 of I-84) that much better as an alternative?

It depends on how many other like-minded drivers are on US 20 with you.

Paul

[The Etobian]

Post by k***@att.net
I'd love to know! I was stuck at this very exit once myself. NEVER
AGAIN! Is taking US 20 West from Worcester/Auburn to I-84 in
Sturbridge (joining at Exit 3 of I-84) that much better as an
alternative?

I did just that on Sunday. I was driving west on the Pike about noon
or so, and traffic has backed up to 146, so I took that exit. Of
course, there was just one (ONE!) cash lane open, but once I got past
that, it was Rte. 20 west all the way to I-84. A few traffic lights
on the way, but for the most part, I was able to do 45 to 55. Sure
beats stop & go from 146 to I-84.

[Paul Anderson]

In article

Part of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting
to access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

You point out one problem, which is lack of information about which lane
to use for Fast Lane or cash. Especially if there is a big vehicle in
front of you, you have no idea until it's too late which lane to use.

The other problem, which affects through traffic on I-90, is the people
that cut over at the last minute to exit at I-84. This problem is not
unique to this exit, but it's ridiculous that through traffic has to be
delayed because of jerks who can't read the signs that their exit is
coming up.

Or maybe there needs to be a fourth lane added for a mile or two before
the exit so the left two lanes are through lanes and the right are for
Exit 9.

Paul

[Rothman]

Post by Paul Anderson
In article

Part of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting
to access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

You point out one problem, which is lack of information about which lane
to use for Fast Lane or cash. Especially if there is a big vehicle in
front of you, you have no idea until it's too late which lane to use.
The other problem, which affects through traffic on I-90, is the people
that cut over at the last minute to exit at I-84. This problem is not
unique to this exit, but it's ridiculous that through traffic has to be
delayed because of jerks who can't read the signs that their exit is
coming up.
Or maybe there needs to be a fourth lane added for a mile or two before
the exit so the left two lanes are through lanes and the right are for
Exit 9.
Paul
--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

Agreed.

Westbound, the approach signs are also a little deceptive. Although
they follow convention for an exit only lane, I believe that there are
two available lanes that head down to I-84 from WB I-90 (the second
lane "appearing" within about 1/8 mile of the actual exit). The
second lane was underutilized, as I recall; couldn't see any reason
why anyone wouldn't take it, except perhaps out of fear of ending up
in a Fast Lane (just speculation on my part).

[J.P. Wing]

Post by Paul Anderson
In article

Part of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting
to access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

You point out one problem, which is lack of information about which lane
to use for Fast Lane or cash. Especially if there is a big vehicle in
front of you, you have no idea until it's too late which lane to use.
The other problem, which affects through traffic on I-90, is the people
that cut over at the last minute to exit at I-84. This problem is not
unique to this exit, but it's ridiculous that through traffic has to be
delayed because of jerks who can't read the signs that their exit is
coming up.
Or maybe there needs to be a fourth lane added for a mile or two before
the exit so the left two lanes are through lanes and the right are for
Exit 9.
Paul

As I recall, the signs for Exit 9 on I-90 WB are larger than most of
the other guide panels on the Mass Pike. There's also signs in the left
hand shoulder alerting people of the upcoming exit. In addition,
there's been portable VMSes with messages about Exit 9 coming up and
that Hartford/NYC bound traffic should move to the right hand lanes.

I think some of the problem is the "me me me" attitude of many drivers
in the area.

Granted, the Fast Lane lanes should be grouped together to either one
side or the other and that should be indicated on signs preceding the
toll booths, though I doubt many of the drivers would even read them.

I lived in Massachusetts in the late 80s and early 90s and even back
then that interchange was an issue.

J.P. Wing

[Rothman]

Post by J.P. Wing

Post by Paul Anderson
In article

Part of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting
to access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

You point out one problem, which is lack of information about which lane
to use for Fast Lane or cash. Especially if there is a big vehicle in
front of you, you have no idea until it's too late which lane to use.
The other problem, which affects through traffic on I-90, is the people
that cut over at the last minute to exit at I-84. This problem is not
unique to this exit, but it's ridiculous that through traffic has to be
delayed because of jerks who can't read the signs that their exit is
coming up.
Or maybe there needs to be a fourth lane added for a mile or two before
the exit so the left two lanes are through lanes and the right are for
Exit 9.
Paul

As I recall, the signs for Exit 9 on I-90 WB are larger than most of
the other guide panels on the Mass Pike. There's also signs in the left
hand shoulder alerting people of the upcoming exit. In addition,
there's been portable VMSes with messages about Exit 9 coming up and
that Hartford/NYC bound traffic should move to the right hand lanes.
I think some of the problem is the "me me me" attitude of many drivers
in the area.
Granted, the Fast Lane lanes should be grouped together to either one
side or the other and that should be indicated on signs preceding the
toll booths, though I doubt many of the drivers would even read them.
I lived in Massachusetts in the late 80s and early 90s and even back
then that interchange was an issue.
J.P. Wing- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You're right about the quantity of signs and the PVMS, but I still
think the signs don't match up with the ramp configuration, WB, at
least.

[Paul Anderson]

In article

Post by Rothman
You're right about the quantity of signs and the PVMS, but I still
think the signs don't match up with the ramp configuration, WB, at
least.

There are three westbound lanes as the Pike approaches exit 9. The
rightmost lane becomes an exit-only lane, with the two leftmost lanes
becoming through lanes for Pike traffic. Just before the exit, a fourth
lane begins on the right.

Many people in the right lane switch to the new fourth lane, which
allows people who have been driving in the rightmost through lane to cut
over at the last minute to the leftmost exit lane.

I believe the right lane is marked "exit only" with no indication of
that fourth lane.

Given that the fourth lane appears so close to the exit, I'm not sure
how its presence would be properly indicated.

Paul

[Rothman]

Post by Paul Anderson
In article

Post by Rothman
You're right about the quantity of signs and the PVMS, but I still
think the signs don't match up with the ramp configuration, WB, at
least.

There are three westbound lanes as the Pike approaches exit 9. The
rightmost lane becomes an exit-only lane, with the two leftmost lanes
becoming through lanes for Pike traffic. Just before the exit, a fourth
lane begins on the right.
Many people in the right lane switch to the new fourth lane, which
allows people who have been driving in the rightmost through lane to cut
over at the last minute to the leftmost exit lane.
I believe the right lane is marked "exit only" with no indication of
that fourth lane.
Given that the fourth lane appears so close to the exit, I'm not sure
how its presence would be properly indicated.
Paul
--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

"USE 2 LANES" sign?

[Paul Anderson]

In article

Post by Rothman

Post by Paul Anderson
Given that the fourth lane appears so close to the exit, I'm not
sure how its presence would be properly indicated.

"USE 2 LANES" sign?

Do you mean one of the signs at the side of the road? Perhaps that
would help, but I don't think the backups are due to a lack of people
using the right lane, but rather people who don't move to the right soon
enough to avoid blocking through traffic.

An overhead sign indicating two lanes for through traffic and two lanes
for the exit would be most helpful, as that could be seen from a
distance and help get people in the correct lanes.

But a longer fourth lane on the right would help too.

Paul

[roadman]

Post by Paul Anderson
An overhead sign indicating two lanes for through traffic and two lanes
for the exit would be most helpful, as that could be seen from a
distance and help get people in the correct lanes.

IMHO, overhead diagrammatic signs spaced at the 2 mile, 1 mile, and
1/2 mile points would convey the exit configuation very nicely and
still leave enough room for an "US 20 Sturbridge Use Exit 9"
suppplemental sign. The only real issue is deciding which destination
(New York City, NY City, or Hartford CT) you'd use for I-84, which
means you'd need a second supplemental sign for the city that didn't
go on the overhead signs.

The other change I'd like to see is replacing the short vertical down
arrows on the ssign at the exit ramp with longer ones downward tilted
at 45 degrees - like the pre-1994 'exit direction' sign had.

Post by Paul Anderson
But a longer fourth lane on the right would help too.

Agreed. But that will take more work than installing new signs.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by Paul Anderson
In article

Post by Rothman
You're right about the quantity of signs and the PVMS, but I still
think the signs don't match up with the ramp configuration, WB, at
least.

There are three westbound lanes as the Pike approaches exit 9. The
rightmost lane becomes an exit-only lane, with the two leftmost lanes
becoming through lanes for Pike traffic. Just before the exit, a fourth
lane begins on the right.
Many people in the right lane switch to the new fourth lane, which
allows people who have been driving in the rightmost through lane to cut
over at the last minute to the leftmost exit lane.

And there is the problem right there. The way it is striped. It is a
totally 100% completely unreasonable to assume that if there is 2-
lanes worth of exiting traffic, that they should line up single file
temporarily for a mile before the split. That is just not realistic
and not how motorists drive. Now if the interchange were striped
properly, meaning the right lane is for I-84, the left lane for the
Pike, and the center lane diverging, then I-84 traffic would line up
in 2 lanes, and the queues wouldonly be half as long as now.

Basically, right now drivers are behaving as if the center lane
diverges. Therefore striping should be changed to reflect that
fact.

Post by Paul Anderson
I believe the right lane is marked "exit only" with no indication of
that fourth lane.

You can't really indicate it properly. Because if you want I-84 to
line up in 2 lanes, you cant really put an arrow over the center lane
of the Mass Pike since that lane ultimately does not go to I-84.

Post by Paul Anderson
Given that the fourth lane appears so close to the exit, I'm not sure
how its presence would be properly indicated.

By changing the striping to reflect what motorists are doing and what
most other agencies are doing.

Post by Paul Anderson
Paul
--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company

[Paul Anderson]

In article

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Paul Anderson
In article
Many people in the right lane switch to the new fourth lane, which
allows people who have been driving in the rightmost through lane
to cut over at the last minute to the leftmost exit lane.

And there is the problem right there. The way it is striped. It is
a totally 100% completely unreasonable to assume that if there is 2-
lanes worth of exiting traffic, that they should line up single file
temporarily for a mile before the split. That is just not realistic
and not how motorists drive. Now if the interchange were striped
properly, meaning the right lane is for I-84, the left lane for the
Pike, and the center lane diverging, then I-84 traffic would line up
in 2 lanes, and the queues wouldonly be half as long as now.
Basically, right now drivers are behaving as if the center lane
diverges. Therefore striping should be changed to reflect that fact.

That is a very good idea.

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Paul Anderson
I believe the right lane is marked "exit only" with no indication
of that fourth lane.

You can't really indicate it properly. Because if you want I-84 to
line up in 2 lanes, you cant really put an arrow over the center lane
of the Mass Pike since that lane ultimately does not go to I-84.

Post by Paul Anderson
Given that the fourth lane appears so close to the exit, I'm not
sure how its presence would be properly indicated.

By changing the striping to reflect what motorists are doing and what
most other agencies are doing.

What do you mean by "what most other agencies are doing"? You don't
often see such lane configurations, although there are some on US
3/Everett Turnpike in Nashua. The MA 4 exit off US 3 in Chelmsford is
like that too. Are there any rules or guidelines _against_ such a
configuration?

Paul

[k***@att.net]

OK...it was mentioned earlier about eliminating the tolls west of I-95/
MA 128 on the Turnpike. If it's all paid off, why are the tolls still
being collected? Is it because of the Big Dig? I live near Hartford
and go through Sturbridge all the time enroute to Boston.

Although I have been on the Turnpike west of Exit 9, it's a rare
occurence. How is the problem heading from I-90 East to I-84 West?

[John F. Carr]

Post by k***@att.net
OK...it was mentioned earlier about eliminating the tolls west of I-95/
MA 128 on the Turnpike. If it's all paid off, why are the tolls still
being collected? Is it because of the Big Dig? I live near Hartford
and go through Sturbridge all the time enroute to Boston.

Government employee unions have a lot of political influence
in Massachusetts. The Turnpike Authority has a lot of union
jobs _and_ a lot of patronage jobs. Mitt Romney tried to free
the Pike west of Route 128 but couldn't get it done before
Deval Patrick took over.

State law requires the Big Dig to be financially independent
of the Turnpike outside Route 128. The Turnpike Authority
has been billing Big Dig overhead costs to the rest of the
Turnpike. Turnpike backers threatened big toll increases
inside Route 128 if the illegal subsidy from the rest of
the Turnpike were eliminated by making the road free.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by Paul Anderson
In article

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Paul Anderson
In article
Many people in the right lane switch to the new fourth lane, which
allows people who have been driving in the rightmost through lane
to cut over at the last minute to the leftmost exit lane.

And there is the problem right there. The way it is striped. It is
a totally 100% completely unreasonable to assume that if there is 2-
lanes worth of exiting traffic, that they should line up single file
temporarily for a mile before the split. That is just not realistic
and not how motorists drive. Now if the interchange were striped
properly, meaning the right lane is for I-84, the left lane for the
Pike, and the center lane diverging, then I-84 traffic would line up
in 2 lanes, and the queues wouldonly be half as long as now.
Basically, right now drivers are behaving as if the center lane
diverges. Therefore striping should be changed to reflect that fact.

That is a very good idea.

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Paul Anderson
I believe the right lane is marked "exit only" with no indication
of that fourth lane.

You can't really indicate it properly. Because if you want I-84 to
line up in 2 lanes, you cant really put an arrow over the center lane
of the Mass Pike since that lane ultimately does not go to I-84.

Post by Paul Anderson
Given that the fourth lane appears so close to the exit, I'm not
sure how its presence would be properly indicated.

By changing the striping to reflect what motorists are doing and what
most other agencies are doing.

What do you mean by "what most other agencies are doing"? You don't
often see such lane configurations, although there are some on US
3/Everett Turnpike in Nashua. The MA 4 exit off US 3 in Chelmsford is
like that too. Are there any rules or guidelines _against_ such a
configuration?

At a diverge, where you have 3 lanes going in and 2 roads with 2 lanes
each leaving...more often than not the center lane divides. Otherwise,
you have un-even lane usage (assuming traffic volumes for each route
are roughly even) unless the fourth lane begins at least a mile or two
back from the diverge point. This does not happen at Exit 9.

Post by Paul Anderson
Paul
--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[k***@att.net]

I know when you're heading east on I-90, the two lane ramp from I-84
merges in on the right and the road goes from two lanes to four. The
roadway drops back down to three lanes once you're up the hill, under
the bridge by the Sturbridge/Charlton town line, a good distance
before the eastbound rest stop.

[roadman]

Post by Mike Tantillo
At a diverge, where you have 3 lanes going in and 2 roads with 2 lanes
each leaving...more often than not the center lane divides.

In this configuration, the center lane is normally referred to as a
'optional lane' - that is, by staying in the center lane, you can
either continue on the mainline or take the exit. Diagrammatic
signing is usually recommended for an 'optional lane' condition.

[Steve A.]

Post by Rothman
On the Saturday after Thanksgiving, I went to Boston with the wife and
kids. Took a trip back on the Pike and needed to head down I-84 into
CT (Exit 9). The trip was totally uneventful until we passed the exit
for I-290/I-395/MA-12 at around 4:30 p.m. (Exit 10). There didn't
seem to be any flood of "rush hour" traffic entering the Pike from
Exit 10. Traffic was stop-and-go for about eight of the 10 or so
miles between Exit 10 and 9.
Having grown up in Massachusetts (and remembering when there was an
I-86 and MA/CT-52), I've slowly watched this intersection get worse
and worse with backups onto the Pike's mainline, holiday or not. Part
of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting to
access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

It _should_ be cheap enough (relative to the traffic problem at hand)
to just install high-speed toll lanes, as the NJ Turnpike and Garden
State Pkwy. have done very successfully. The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that. Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).

[EAST COAST HIVE MIND]

It should be cheap enough (relative to the traffic problem at hand)
to just install high-speed toll lanes, as the NJ Turnpike and Garden
State Pkwy. have done very successfully.  The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that.  Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).

There's an area that could use ORT like yesterday.

[Rothman]

Post by Steve A.

Post by Rothman
On the Saturday after Thanksgiving, I went to Boston with the wife and
kids. Took a trip back on the Pike and needed to head down I-84 into
CT (Exit 9). The trip was totally uneventful until we passed the exit
for I-290/I-395/MA-12 at around 4:30 p.m. (Exit 10). There didn't
seem to be any flood of "rush hour" traffic entering the Pike from
Exit 10. Traffic was stop-and-go for about eight of the 10 or so
miles between Exit 10 and 9.
Having grown up in Massachusetts (and remembering when there was an
I-86 and MA/CT-52), I've slowly watched this intersection get worse
and worse with backups onto the Pike's mainline, holiday or not. Part
of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting to
access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

It _should_ be cheap enough (relative to the traffic problem at hand)
to just install high-speed toll lanes, as the NJ Turnpike and Garden
State Pkwy. have done very successfully. The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that. Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The backup I was in saw the Fast Lanes horrifically underutilized.
Just for safety's sake, you'd think they'd be able to bring in ringer
toll collectors and open up more cash booths to get stopped cars off
the mainline.

Changing the underutilized Fast Lanes to high-speed Fast Lanes won't
change their utilization much. Because it's hard to find a free E-
ZPass nowadays (albeit probably not impossible--if they're still
available, post and let us know where!), I'd imagine fewer people are
switching over when they see that they pay some sort of maintenance
fee per month. Make transponders the same as a debit account (i.e. I
just rack up a bill and pay it off each month with tacked on fees),
and I'd jump on that bandwagon.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by Rothman

Post by Steve A.

Post by Rothman
On the Saturday after Thanksgiving, I went to Boston with the wife and
kids. Took a trip back on the Pike and needed to head down I-84 into
CT (Exit 9). The trip was totally uneventful until we passed the exit
for I-290/I-395/MA-12 at around 4:30 p.m. (Exit 10). There didn't
seem to be any flood of "rush hour" traffic entering the Pike from
Exit 10. Traffic was stop-and-go for about eight of the 10 or so
miles between Exit 10 and 9.
Having grown up in Massachusetts (and remembering when there was an
I-86 and MA/CT-52), I've slowly watched this intersection get worse
and worse with backups onto the Pike's mainline, holiday or not. Part
of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting to
access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

It _should_ be cheap enough (relative to the traffic problem at hand)
to just install high-speed toll lanes, as the NJ Turnpike and Garden
State Pkwy. have done very successfully. The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that. Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The backup I was in saw the Fast Lanes horrifically underutilized.
Just for safety's sake, you'd think they'd be able to bring in ringer
toll collectors and open up more cash booths to get stopped cars off
the mainline.

I honestly don't know that I'd determine the ratio of regular lanes to
Fast Lanes based on holiday weekend traffic. Clearly the ratio was
skewed more towards cash users on the holiday weekend, but for the
other 360 days a year, that is probably a more reasonable distribution
between electronic and manual toll lanes. I think the bigger problem
is the random spacing of the two types of lanes. If it were up to me
I'd put all fast lanes on the left and cash lanes on the right. I'd
then place one Fast Lane on the far right to accomodate those coming
off the eastboune Mass Pike. That lane might be a shared cash/Fast
Lane, if such a thing exists in Mass. Same thing going eastbound.

My idea for how to fix the mess permanently is to relocate the toll
plaza. Problem is it would be difficult to put in high-speed Fast
Lanes at the current location due to weaving upstream and downstream
at the Mass Pike to/from the west and US 20. So here is my radical
solution. Actually, here are 4.

1) Eliminate tolls west of Route 128. As I understand, this segment
is paid off, and Mass Pike Authority's goal is to shift the toll
burden to the inside-128 facilities to pay off the Big Dig. This
would be a step in that direction and would eliminate the problem at
Sturbridge.

2) Shift the western edge of toll collection to Exit 9 instead of Exit
6. Build a mainline plaza anywhere between Exits 10 and 9, and make
sure it includes express Fast Lanes and sufficient manual lanes for
everyone else.

3) Keep toll structure as is, and build a new Exit 9 toll plaza in the
Mass Pike mainline right of way east of Exit 9. It would work as
follows when heading west: westbound Exit 9 for cash customers keep
right, westbound through traffic and Fast Lane keep left. New toll
plaza on outside lanes only for Exit 9 traffic paying cash. Beyond
the toll plaza, there is a second Exit 9 for Fast Lane tagholders.
There is simply a gantry over the slip ramp to collect those tolls at
high speed. The Exiting and through traffic are seperated until they
get to sturbridge, where the outer lanes veer right to the exit and
the inner lanes are for through traffic. The existing Exit 9 tolls
are removed, except for the right-most 2 booths which would be kept
for eastbound Mass Pike traffic exiting. Reverse everything
eastbound, except the dual booths for traffic entering the westbound
Mass Pike would be on the left side of I-84, which might make things a
bit trickier.

4) keep the same toll structure, and eliminate tickets. When you
enter the Mass Pike, instead of collecting a ticket or passing through
a Fast Lane in a toll booth, you just pass under a gantry at high
speed. If a Fast Lane tag is present, it will process just as it does
now. If no fast Lane tag is present, a camera with optical character
recogntion reads the license plate number and stores the tag number,
entry interchange, and entry time electronically. When you get to
your exit, you select a cash lane or Fast Lane. Fast Lane works just
like normal, and so does cash, except instead of turning in a ticket,
the license plate scanner just matches an entry interchange with your
car and displays the amount due on a screen. If they really wanted to
get fancy they could have long toll lanes and display the amount due a
few car lengths before the booth so you have time to get money ready
while waiting in line. If you are on vacation and have bicycles
strapped to the back of the car and therefore think that you are
exempt for the requirement to display your licence plate in a manner
visible to the general public, then you get to pay the maximum toll to
that exit point.

This way most entry toll lanes can be eliminated and those booths
converted to exit lanes. Voila, more capacity, half the toll stops,
Garden State Parkway style.

Post by Rothman
Changing the underutilized Fast Lanes to high-speed Fast Lanes won't
change their utilization much. Because it's hard to find a free E-
ZPass nowadays (albeit probably not impossible--if they're still
available, post and let us know where!), I'd imagine fewer people are
switching over when they see that they pay some sort of maintenance
fee per month. Make transponders the same as a debit account (i.e. I
just rack up a bill and pay it off each month with tacked on fees),
and I'd jump on that bandwagon.

Try Maryland Transportation Authority, Virginia DOT, or the Delaware
River and Bay Authority. I believe they still give you the tag for
free and have no monthly fees. Depending on where/when you drive
through toll facilties, you may find the $1/month fee worth it just to
not have to sit in the cash lanes. If you regularly drive across MTA
bridge/tunnel facilities in NYC, you'd probably agree that its $12
well spent (plus, if you take 12 round trips per year at MTA
facilities, the discount pays for the tag maintnance fees).

- Hide quoted text -

Post by Rothman
- Show quoted text -

[Stephane Dumas]

Post by Mike Tantillo
1) Eliminate tolls west of Route 128. As I understand, this segment
is paid off, and Mass Pike Authority's goal is to shift the toll
burden to the inside-128 facilities to pay off the Big Dig. This
would be a step in that direction and would eliminate the problem at
Sturbridge.
2) Shift the western edge of toll collection to Exit 9 instead of Exit
6. Build a mainline plaza anywhere between Exits 10 and 9, and make
sure it includes express Fast Lanes and sufficient manual lanes for
everyone else.
3) Keep toll structure as is, and build a new Exit 9 toll plaza in the
Mass Pike mainline right of way east of Exit 9. It would work as
follows when heading west: westbound Exit 9 for cash customers keep
right, westbound through traffic and Fast Lane keep left. New toll
plaza on outside lanes only for Exit 9 traffic paying cash. Beyond
the toll plaza, there is a second Exit 9 for Fast Lane tagholders.
There is simply a gantry over the slip ramp to collect those tolls at
high speed. The Exiting and through traffic are seperated until they
get to sturbridge, where the outer lanes veer right to the exit and
the inner lanes are for through traffic. The existing Exit 9 tolls
are removed, except for the right-most 2 booths which would be kept
for eastbound Mass Pike traffic exiting. Reverse everything
eastbound, except the dual booths for traffic entering the westbound
Mass Pike would be on the left side of I-84, which might make things a
bit trickier.

You have some good ideas Mike ^_^ I also taught of this one, how about
adding additionnals interchanges but instead of having new toll plazas,
these interchanges are only for Fast lanes/EZ-Pass users?

Stéphane Dumas

[Rothman]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Rothman
Changing the underutilized Fast Lanes to high-speed Fast Lanes won't
change their utilization much. Because it's hard to find a free E-
ZPass nowadays (albeit probably not impossible--if they're still
available, post and let us know where!), I'd imagine fewer people are
switching over when they see that they pay some sort of maintenance
fee per month. Make transponders the same as a debit account (i.e. I
just rack up a bill and pay it off each month without tacked on fees),
and I'd jump on that bandwagon.

Try Maryland Transportation Authority, Virginia DOT, or the Delaware
River and Bay Authority. I believe they still give you the tag for
free and have no monthly fees. Depending on where/when you drive
through toll facilties, you may find the $1/month fee worth it just to
not have to sit in the cash lanes. If you regularly drive across MTA
bridge/tunnel facilities in NYC, you'd probably agree that its $12
well spent (plus, if you take 12 round trips per year at MTA
facilities, the discount pays for the tag maintnance fees).

Totally agree with you RE: MTA facilities.

Don't you have to be a resident of those states to get your hands on
one of those free EZ-Passes, though?

[trivial guy]

Post by Rothman

Post by Mike Tantillo
Try Maryland Transportation Authority, Virginia DOT, or the Delaware
River and Bay Authority. I believe they still give you the tag for
free and have no monthly fees.

Totally agree with you RE: MTA facilities.
Don't you have to be a resident of those states to get your hands on
one of those free EZ-Passes, though?

No. I'm a Massachusetts resident and I have a Maryland EZ-Pass
so I didn't have to fork over $30 or $40 to Mass Pike. I wouldn't
mind if it was a $30 deposit, but you have actually buy the
transponder. And I think you have to pay more if it needs to be
replaced for any reason. No surprise that it seems like very few
people here have them.

[roadman]

Post by trivial guy

Post by Rothman
Don't you have to be a resident of those states to get your hands on
one of those free EZ-Passes, though?

No. I'm a Massachusetts resident and I have a Maryland EZ-Pass
so I didn't have to fork over $30 or $40 to Mass Pike. I wouldn't
mind if it was a $30 deposit, but you have actually buy the
transponder. And I think you have to pay more if it needs to be
replaced for any reason. No surprise that it seems like very few
people here have them.

One word of advice - don't try to apply for an 'out of state' EZPass
on line, as the web site will redirect you to your home state's
agency. Instead, you should download the application, print it out,
and return it via snail mail.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by roadman

Post by trivial guy

Post by Rothman
Don't you have to be a resident of those states to get your hands on
one of those free EZ-Passes, though?

No. I'm a Massachusetts resident and I have a Maryland EZ-Pass
so I didn't have to fork over $30 or $40 to Mass Pike. I wouldn't
mind if it was a $30 deposit, but you have actually buy the
transponder. And I think you have to pay more if it needs to be
replaced for any reason. No surprise that it seems like very few
people here have them.

One word of advice - don't try to apply for an 'out of state' EZPass
on line, as the web site will redirect you to your home state's
agency. Instead, you should download the application, print it out,
and return it via snail mail.

You can still apply online. You just have to trick the system. For
example, if I go to www.ezpassny.com , the first thing that pops up on
the registration screen is something telling me that I should pick the
state/country in which I reside and maybe the E-ZPass facility I use
most. It will then re-direct me to the appropriate site. Outside the
E-ZPass area, it generally asks for what facility you use and
redirects you appropriately. Within the E-ZPass area, it directs you
to the correct state. For non E-ZPass states in the E-ZPass area,
Vermont and Rhode Island direct to Massachusetts, Connecticut directs
to New York, and District of Columbia redirects to Maryland.

But here's the kicker. All you need to do is say you are a resident
of whatever state you want to get your E-ZPass from (such as saying
you are from NY even if you don't live there), because all the above
does is play gatekeeper for the NYS Service Center. When you get to
the application section of the website, you can enter any address you
want, and all states are found in the dropdown menu.

As far as I know, there is nothing illegal about getting an E-ZPass
from a different state. The E-ZPass agencies might not like it, and
they can certainly encourage you to sign up in your own state, but as
far as I know, there is no way they can force you to do that, and
nowhere in the terms of service does it say you have to be a resident
of a particular state. In fact in some cases it might make more sense
to get the E-ZPass from the state you use E-ZPass in the most as
opposed to the one the powers that be want you to use.
Examples..someone from RI who frequents NYC, someone from CT who
frequently travels to MA, WV eastern panhandle residents who go to MD
or PA a lot, etc.

[Rothman]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by roadman

Post by trivial guy

Post by Rothman
Don't you have to be a resident of those states to get your hands on
one of those free EZ-Passes, though?

No. I'm a Massachusetts resident and I have a Maryland EZ-Pass
so I didn't have to fork over $30 or $40 to Mass Pike. I wouldn't
mind if it was a $30 deposit, but you have actually buy the
transponder. And I think you have to pay more if it needs to be
replaced for any reason. No surprise that it seems like very few
people here have them.

One word of advice - don't try to apply for an 'out of state' EZPass
on line, as the web site will redirect you to your home state's
agency. Instead, you should download the application, print it out,
and return it via snail mail.

You can still apply online. You just have to trick the system. For
example, if I go towww.ezpassny.com, the first thing that pops up on
the registration screen is something telling me that I should pick the
state/country in which I reside and maybe the E-ZPass facility I use
most. It will then re-direct me to the appropriate site. Outside the
E-ZPass area, it generally asks for what facility you use and
redirects you appropriately. Within the E-ZPass area, it directs you
to the correct state. For non E-ZPass states in the E-ZPass area,
Vermont and Rhode Island direct to Massachusetts, Connecticut directs
to New York, and District of Columbia redirects to Maryland.
But here's the kicker. All you need to do is say you are a resident
of whatever state you want to get your E-ZPass from (such as saying
you are from NY even if you don't live there), because all the above
does is play gatekeeper for the NYS Service Center. When you get to
the application section of the website, you can enter any address you
want, and all states are found in the dropdown menu.
As far as I know, there is nothing illegal about getting an E-ZPass
from a different state. The E-ZPass agencies might not like it, and
they can certainly encourage you to sign up in your own state, but as
far as I know, there is no way they can force you to do that, and
nowhere in the terms of service does it say you have to be a resident
of a particular state. In fact in some cases it might make more sense
to get the E-ZPass from the state you use E-ZPass in the most as
opposed to the one the powers that be want you to use.
Examples..someone from RI who frequents NYC, someone from CT who
frequently travels to MA, WV eastern panhandle residents who go to MD
or PA a lot, etc.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This should be added to the f.a.q.

[roadman]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by roadman
One word of advice - don't try to apply for an 'out of state' EZPass
on line, as the web site will redirect you to your home state's
agency. Instead, you should download the application, print it out,
and return it via snail mail.

You can still apply online. You just have to trick the system.

Tricking the system doesn't always work. When I applied for my NHDot
EZPass a few years back, I tried exactly that, and it did get me past
the gatekeeper. However, after filling out the on-line application
and clicking "Submit", the system gave me a 'Sorry, we cannot process
this application' message and automatically kicked me over to the
MassPike "Fast Lane" page. So, I exited from the page, shut my
browser off, turned it back on, and tricked the system again. This
enabled me to print out a hard copy application, which I filled out
and sent in by snail mail. Even with the extra steps of snail mail, I
had my transponder in about 4 days.

At first I though this was an isolated incident, until several friends
told me they had similar experiences trying to get their NHDot
transponders.

Post by Mike Tantillo
But here's the kicker. All you need to do is say you are a resident
of whatever state you want to get your E-ZPass from (such as saying
you are from NY even if you don't live there), because all the above
does is play gatekeeper for the NYS Service Center. When you get to
the application section of the website, you can enter any address you
want, and all states are found in the dropdown menu.

As I say, my experience was several years ago. Thing may have changed
since then.

Post by Mike Tantillo
As far as I know, there is nothing illegal about getting an E-ZPass
from a different state. The E-ZPass agencies might not like it, and
they can certainly encourage you to sign up in your own state, but as
far as I know, there is no way they can force you to do that, and
nowhere in the terms of service does it say you have to be a resident
of a particular state.

That sounds correct.

Post by Mike Tantillo
In fact in some cases it might make more sense
to get the E-ZPass from the state you use E-ZPass in the most as
opposed to the one the powers that be want you to use.
Examples..someone from RI who frequents NYC, someone from CT who
frequently travels to MA, WV eastern panhandle residents who go to MD
or PA a lot, etc

Besides the $5.00 transponder fee (which has now been increased to
about $28.00 thanks to an act of the NH Legislature), this is the
other reason I opted for going with NHDot instead of MassPike. I
travel on the MassPike perhaps four or five times a year, whereas I
travel on the NH toll roads an average of twice a month. The per-toll
discount isn't huge, but it does add up over the course of a year.

[Rothman]

Post by roadman

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by roadman
One word of advice - don't try to apply for an 'out of state' EZPass
on line, as the web site will redirect you to your home state's
agency. Instead, you should download the application, print it out,
and return it via snail mail.

You can still apply online. You just have to trick the system.

Tricking the system doesn't always work. When I applied for my NHDot
EZPass a few years back, I tried exactly that, and it did get me past
the gatekeeper. However, after filling out the on-line application
and clicking "Submit", the system gave me a 'Sorry, we cannot process
this application' message and automatically kicked me over to the
MassPike "Fast Lane" page. So, I exited from the page, shut my
browser off, turned it back on, and tricked the system again. This
enabled me to print out a hard copy application, which I filled out
and sent in by snail mail. Even with the extra steps of snail mail, I
had my transponder in about 4 days.
At first I though this was an isolated incident, until several friends
told me they had similar experiences trying to get their NHDot
transponders.

Post by Mike Tantillo
But here's the kicker. All you need to do is say you are a resident
of whatever state you want to get your E-ZPass from (such as saying
you are from NY even if you don't live there), because all the above
does is play gatekeeper for the NYS Service Center. When you get to
the application section of the website, you can enter any address you
want, and all states are found in the dropdown menu.

As I say, my experience was several years ago. Thing may have changed
since then.

Post by Mike Tantillo
As far as I know, there is nothing illegal about getting an E-ZPass
from a different state. The E-ZPass agencies might not like it, and
they can certainly encourage you to sign up in your own state, but as
far as I know, there is no way they can force you to do that, and
nowhere in the terms of service does it say you have to be a resident
of a particular state.

That sounds correct.

Post by Mike Tantillo
In fact in some cases it might make more sense
to get the E-ZPass from the state you use E-ZPass in the most as
opposed to the one the powers that be want you to use.
Examples..someone from RI who frequents NYC, someone from CT who
frequently travels to MA, WV eastern panhandle residents who go to MD
or PA a lot, etc

Besides the $5.00 transponder fee (which has now been increased to
about $28.00 thanks to an act of the NH Legislature), this is the
other reason I opted for going with NHDot instead of MassPike. I
travel on the MassPike perhaps four or five times a year, whereas I
travel on the NH toll roads an average of twice a month. The per-toll
discount isn't huge, but it does add up over the course of a year.

"Tricked" it using Delware River. We'll see what happens. Probably
will end up with all sorts of fun charges.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by Rothman

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Rothman
Changing the underutilized Fast Lanes to high-speed Fast Lanes won't
change their utilization much. Because it's hard to find a free E-
ZPass nowadays (albeit probably not impossible--if they're still
available, post and let us know where!), I'd imagine fewer people are
switching over when they see that they pay some sort of maintenance
fee per month. Make transponders the same as a debit account (i.e. I
just rack up a bill and pay it off each month without tacked on fees),
and I'd jump on that bandwagon.

Try Maryland Transportation Authority, Virginia DOT, or the Delaware
River and Bay Authority. I believe they still give you the tag for
free and have no monthly fees. Depending on where/when you drive
through toll facilties, you may find the $1/month fee worth it just to
not have to sit in the cash lanes. If you regularly drive across MTA
bridge/tunnel facilities in NYC, you'd probably agree that its $12
well spent (plus, if you take 12 round trips per year at MTA
facilities, the discount pays for the tag maintnance fees).

Totally agree with you RE: MTA facilities.
Don't you have to be a resident of those states to get your hands on
one of those free EZ-Passes, though?

No. There needs to be some way to accomodate those who live in non E-
ZPass states who frequently drive on E-ZPass facilities (think of
Connecticut as a perfect example).

- Hide quoted text -

Post by Rothman
- Show quoted text -

[Rothman]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Rothman

Post by Steve A.

Post by Rothman
On the Saturday after Thanksgiving, I went to Boston with the wife and
kids. Took a trip back on the Pike and needed to head down I-84 into
CT (Exit 9). The trip was totally uneventful until we passed the exit
for I-290/I-395/MA-12 at around 4:30 p.m. (Exit 10). There didn't
seem to be any flood of "rush hour" traffic entering the Pike from
Exit 10. Traffic was stop-and-go for about eight of the 10 or so
miles between Exit 10 and 9.
Having grown up in Massachusetts (and remembering when there was an
I-86 and MA/CT-52), I've slowly watched this intersection get worse
and worse with backups onto the Pike's mainline, holiday or not. Part
of the problem (and only a part) seemed to be poor lane
configuration. A cash lane was sandwiched between two Fast Lanes,
causing people to rush down the Fast Lane and then cut in line. As
they waited to cut in line, this caused problems for people wanting to
access the Fast Lane.
Are there any plans to rework the interchange?

It _should_ be cheap enough (relative to the traffic problem at hand)
to just install high-speed toll lanes, as the NJ Turnpike and Garden
State Pkwy. have done very successfully. The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that. Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The backup I was in saw the Fast Lanes horrifically underutilized.
Just for safety's sake, you'd think they'd be able to bring in ringer
toll collectors and open up more cash booths to get stopped cars off
the mainline.

I honestly don't know that I'd determine the ratio of regular lanes to
Fast Lanes based on holiday weekend traffic. Clearly the ratio was
skewed more towards cash users on the holiday weekend, but for the
other 360 days a year, that is probably a more reasonable distribution
between electronic and manual toll lanes. I think the bigger problem
is the random spacing of the two types of lanes. If it were up to me
I'd put all fast lanes on the left and cash lanes on the right. I'd
then place one Fast Lane on the far right to accomodate those coming
off the eastboune Mass Pike. That lane might be a shared cash/Fast
Lane, if such a thing exists in Mass. Same thing going eastbound.
My idea for how to fix the mess permanently is to relocate the toll
plaza. Problem is it would be difficult to put in high-speed Fast
Lanes at the current location due to weaving upstream and downstream
at the Mass Pike to/from the west and US 20. So here is my radical
solution. Actually, here are 4.
1) Eliminate tolls west of Route 128. As I understand, this segment
is paid off, and Mass Pike Authority's goal is to shift the toll
burden to the inside-128 facilities to pay off the Big Dig. This
would be a step in that direction and would eliminate the problem at
Sturbridge.
2) Shift the western edge of toll collection to Exit 9 instead of Exit
6. Build a mainline plaza anywhere between Exits 10 and 9, and make
sure it includes express Fast Lanes and sufficient manual lanes for
everyone else.
3) Keep toll structure as is, and build a new Exit 9 toll plaza in the
Mass Pike mainline right of way east of Exit 9. It would work as
follows when heading west: westbound Exit 9 for cash customers keep
right, westbound through traffic and Fast Lane keep left. New toll
plaza on outside lanes only for Exit 9 traffic paying cash. Beyond
the toll plaza, there is a second Exit 9 for Fast Lane tagholders.
There is simply a gantry over the slip ramp to collect those tolls at
high speed. The Exiting and through traffic are seperated until they
get to sturbridge, where the outer lanes veer right to the exit and
the inner lanes are for through traffic. The existing Exit 9 tolls
are removed, except for the right-most 2 booths which would be kept
for eastbound Mass Pike traffic exiting. Reverse everything
eastbound, except the dual booths for traffic entering the westbound
Mass Pike would be on the left side of I-84, which might make things a
bit trickier.
4) keep the same toll structure, and eliminate tickets. When you
enter the Mass Pike, instead of collecting a ticket or passing through
a Fast Lane in a toll booth, you justpassunder a gantry at high
speed. If a Fast Lane tag is present, it will process just as it does
now. If no fast Lane tag is present, a camera with optical character
recogntion reads the license plate number and stores the tag number,
entry interchange, and entry time electronically. When you get to
your exit, you select a cash lane or Fast Lane. Fast Lane works just
like normal, and so does cash, except instead of turning in a ticket,
the license plate scanner just matches an entry interchange with your
car and displays the amount due on a screen. If they really wanted to
get fancy they could have long toll lanes and display the amount due a
few car lengths before the booth so you have time to get money ready
while waiting in line. If you are on vacation and have bicycles
strapped to the back of the car and therefore think that you are
exempt for the requirement to display your licence plate in a manner
visible to the general public, then you get to pay the maximum toll to
that exit point.
This way most entry toll lanes can be eliminated and those booths
converted to exit lanes. Voila, more capacity, half the toll stops,
Garden State Parkway style.

Post by Rothman
Changing the underutilized Fast Lanes to high-speed Fast Lanes won't
change their utilization much. Because it's hard to find a free E-
ZPass nowadays (albeit probably not impossible--if they're still
available, post and let us know where!), I'd imagine fewer people are
switching over when they see that they pay some sort of maintenance
fee per month. Make transponders the same as a debit account (i.e. I
just rack up a bill and pay it off each month with tacked on fees),
and I'd jump on that bandwagon.

Try Maryland Transportation Authority, Virginia DOT, or the Delaware
River and Bay Authority. I believe they still give you the tag for
free and have no monthly fees. Depending on where/when you drive
through toll facilties, you may find the $1/month fee worth it just to
not have to sit in the cash lanes. If you regularly drive across MTA
bridge/tunnel facilities in NYC, you'd probably agree that its $12
well spent (plus, if you take 12 round trips per year at MTA
facilities, the discount pays for the tag maintnance fees).

DRBA is going to charge $21 per tag and $1.50 per month starting
January 1, 2008. Go figure. They blame it on the Delaware Memorial
Bridge according to a letter I received that was dated December 7,
2007.

Time to search for a new free EZ-Pass.

[Michael Moroney]

Post by Steve A.
The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that. Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).

I am not totally sure about that. There seems to be a need for 4 lanes
there at times, not just three. I say this because the Sunday after
Thanksgiving, the Mass Pike and I-84 back up the other way at Exit 9. But
this backup isn't caused by the Exit 9 tollbooth. The backup is where 2
lanes of Mass Pike plus 2 lanes of I-84 merge to become 3 lanes of Mass
Pike east of I-84. The backup regularly backs up through the toll booth
on I-84 often as far as before Exit 1, but is backed up _after_ the toll
booth onto the mainline as well.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by Michael Moroney

Post by Steve A.
The delays at I-84 are
entirely caused by the toll plaza, not by any "me-me-me" attitude or
anything else like that. Allow most traffic to flow smoothly, and
there will be no need for roadway widening (MAYBE one additional lane
between Exits 9-10).

I am not totally sure about that. There seems to be a need for 4 lanes
there at times, not just three. I say this because the Sunday after
Thanksgiving, the Mass Pike and I-84 back up the other way at Exit 9. But
this backup isn't caused by the Exit 9 tollbooth. The backup is where 2
lanes of Mass Pike plus 2 lanes of I-84 merge to become 3 lanes of Mass
Pike east of I-84. The backup regularly backs up through the toll booth
on I-84 often as far as before Exit 1, but is backed up _after_ the toll
booth onto the mainline as well.

DOes this occur other times besides Thanksgiving weekend? Generally,
roads are not designed to accomodate a huge peak in traffic that only
occurs for a few hours every year.

[Michael Moroney]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Michael Moroney
I am not totally sure about that. There seems to be a need for 4 lanes
there at times, not just three. I say this because the Sunday after
Thanksgiving, the Mass Pike and I-84 back up the other way at Exit 9. But
this backup isn't caused by the Exit 9 tollbooth. The backup is where 2
lanes of Mass Pike plus 2 lanes of I-84 merge to become 3 lanes of Mass
Pike east of I-84. The backup regularly backs up through the toll booth
on I-84 often as far as before Exit 1, but is backed up _after_ the toll
booth onto the mainline as well.

DOes this occur other times besides Thanksgiving weekend? Generally,
roads are not designed to accomodate a huge peak in traffic that only
occurs for a few hours every year.

I'm not sure, to be honest. I've been going that way and back nearly
every single Thanksgiving for the last 24 years, and almost never at other
times (though I take the MassPike without using Exit 9 more frequently)
so "to me" I-84 is "always" jammed solid from the Mass Pike through the
tolls to around Exit 1. I've seen the Pike jammed there a couple of
holiday weekends, but on the Pike the jam was short, starting before Exit
9 EB and ending when it becomes 3 lanes. Traffic there during holidays is
very lopsided.

Nowadays I usually bail out at Exit 1 or 2 of I-84 and take Haynes St
(Google Maps still calls it MA 15) to US 20, or US 20/MA 49 where I can
look down on 4 lanes of stopped MassPike traffic.

[Rothman]

Post by Michael Moroney

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Michael Moroney
I am not totally sure about that. There seems to be a need for 4 lanes
there at times, not just three. I say this because the Sunday after
Thanksgiving, the Mass Pike and I-84 back up the other way at Exit 9. But
this backup isn't caused by the Exit 9 tollbooth. The backup is where 2
lanes of Mass Pike plus 2 lanes of I-84 merge to become 3 lanes of Mass
Pike east of I-84. The backup regularly backs up through the toll booth
on I-84 often as far as before Exit 1, but is backed up _after_ the toll
booth onto the mainline as well.

DOes this occur other times besides Thanksgiving weekend? Generally,
roads are not designed to accomodate a huge peak in traffic that only
occurs for a few hours every year.

I'm not sure, to be honest. I've been going that way and back nearly
every single Thanksgiving for the last 24 years, and almost never at other
times (though I take the MassPike without using Exit 9 more frequently)
so "to me" I-84 is "always" jammed solid from the Mass Pike through the
tolls to around Exit 1. I've seen the Pike jammed there a couple of
holiday weekends, but on the Pike the jam was short, starting before Exit
9 EB and ending when it becomes 3 lanes. Traffic there during holidays is
very lopsided.
Nowadays I usually bail out at Exit 1 or 2 of I-84 and take Haynes St
(Google Maps still calls it MA 15) to US 20, or US 20/MA 49 where I can
look down on 4 lanes of stopped MassPike traffic.

I've seen backups onto the Pike's mainline on non-holiday weekends AND
weekdays. Not as bad as my most recent experience (i.e. multiple
miles of backup), but I don't go through there as frequently as I once
did.

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by Michael Moroney

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by Michael Moroney
I am not totally sure about that. There seems to be a need for 4 lanes
there at times, not just three. I say this because the Sunday after
Thanksgiving, the Mass Pike and I-84 back up the other way at Exit 9. But
this backup isn't caused by the Exit 9 tollbooth. The backup is where 2
lanes of Mass Pike plus 2 lanes of I-84 merge to become 3 lanes of Mass
Pike east of I-84. The backup regularly backs up through the toll booth
on I-84 often as far as before Exit 1, but is backed up _after_ the toll
booth onto the mainline as well.

DOes this occur other times besides Thanksgiving weekend? Generally,
roads are not designed to accomodate a huge peak in traffic that only
occurs for a few hours every year.

I'm not sure, to be honest. I've been going that way and back nearly
every single Thanksgiving for the last 24 years, and almost never at other
times (though I take the MassPike without using Exit 9 more frequently)
so "to me" I-84 is "always" jammed solid from the Mass Pike through the
tolls to around Exit 1. I've seen the Pike jammed there a couple of
holiday weekends, but on the Pike the jam was short, starting before Exit
9 EB and ending when it becomes 3 lanes. Traffic there during holidays is
very lopsided.

I wonder why that is (traffic being so lopsided)?

Post by Michael Moroney
Nowadays I usually bail out at Exit 1 or 2 of I-84 and take Haynes St
(Google Maps still calls it MA 15) to US 20, or US 20/MA 49 where I can
look down on 4 lanes of stopped MassPike traffic.