The BQE Triple Cantilever Project

[Scott M. Kozel]

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/construction/accelerated/wsbqe0600.cfm

Envisioning the Future
The BQE Triple Cantilever Project

Project Overview

In 1940, urban planner Robert Moses recommended construction of the BQE
in order to fill a gap in New York City's arterial system and aid in
National defense, and work on the BQE was begun. Now almost 60 years
old, this major artery is in need of reconstruction, with work being
done in phases to accommodate burgeoning traffic.

The most notable bridge along the project corridor, the triple
cantilever, is a reinforced concrete, multi-level structure built in
1948. It carries six lanes of the BQE on two cantilevers, with the
three eastbound lanes located above the three westbound lanes. The
third cantilever features the Brooklyn Heights Promenade, a pedestrian
walkway with views of the East River and the Manhattan skyline. Furman
Street runs parallel to the Interstate, at grade. Local street
intersections and connections to the Brooklyn Bridge north of the triple
cantilever add to the complexity of the structure.

NYSDOT has defined the scope of the BQE "triple cantilever" project as
follows: 1) either rehabilitate or replace the triple cantilever itself,
and 2) either rehabilitate or replace the 21 other structures within the
project area. NYSDOT's primary goal is to address the safety and
congestion problems caused by heavy traffic conditions throughout the
corridor. The number of structures involved makes this a complex
project, and traffic control will be a major challenge.

[j***@hotmail.com]

Yeah, OK, like that project will ever happen...

Post by Scott M. Kozel
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/construction/accelerated/wsbqe0600.cfm
Envisioning the Future
The BQE Triple Cantilever Project
Project Overview
In 1940, urban planner Robert Moses recommended construction of the BQE
in order to fill a gap in New York City's arterial system and aid in
National defense, and work on the BQE was begun. Now almost 60 years
old, this major artery is in need of reconstruction, with work being
done in phases to accommodate burgeoning traffic.
The most notable bridge along the project corridor, the triple
cantilever, is a reinforced concrete, multi-level structure built in
1948. It carries six lanes of the BQE on two cantilevers, with the
three eastbound lanes located above the three westbound lanes. The
third cantilever features the Brooklyn Heights Promenade, a pedestrian
walkway with views of the East River and the Manhattan skyline. Furman
Street runs parallel to the Interstate, at grade. Local street
intersections and connections to the Brooklyn Bridge north of the triple
cantilever add to the complexity of the structure.
NYSDOT has defined the scope of the BQE "triple cantilever" project as
follows: 1) either rehabilitate or replace the triple cantilever itself,
and 2) either rehabilitate or replace the 21 other structures within the
project area. NYSDOT's primary goal is to address the safety and
congestion problems caused by heavy traffic conditions throughout the
corridor. The number of structures involved makes this a complex
project, and traffic control will be a major challenge.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C.http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

[p***@yahoo.com]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Yeah, OK, like that project will ever happen...

Sir,
I promise you it will happen.
Those structures are very old and in bad shape,
they must be replaced. Just like the Gowonus.
It has to happen. Expensive, yes, but it will happen.

What exactly is the alternative?
I do not believe there is one that is acceptible.

Take care,
Randy in Clearwater, FL

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Yeah, OK, like that project will ever happen...

Sir,
I promise you it will happen.
Those structures are very old and in bad shape,
they must be replaced. Just like the Gowonus.
It has to happen. Expensive, yes, but it will happen.

The Gowanus rehab is happening, and has been for many years, and many
years to come i'm sure.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
What exactly is the alternative?
I do not believe there is one that is acceptible.

Then again, I do not believe that any project which would shut down 3
lanes of the BQE for a long term period of time is acceptable either,
due to the construction impacts on traffic. So I highly doubt they
will completely shut down one of the cantilevers to replace it. Doing
an in-place rehab seems like it would take forever, but thats likely
the only reasonable option.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
Take care,
Randy in Clearwater, FL

[Sherman L. Cahal]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Yeah, OK, like that project will ever happen...

Sir,
I promise you it will happen.
Those structures are very old and in bad shape,
they must be replaced. Just like the Gowonus.
It has to happen. Expensive, yes, but it will happen.

The Gowanus rehab is happening, and has been for many years, and many
years to come i'm sure.

I noticed that the last time I was in NYC. I saw they were redecking,
but I doubt they are doing any structural work - which is greatly
needed.

Or replacement with something more pleasing.

[Sir Ray]

Post by Sherman L. Cahal

Doing an in-place rehab seems like it would take forever

This is a fairly common timeframe for most NYC road projects anyway...

Post by Sherman L. Cahal
Or replacement with something more pleasing.

The solution Moses came up with seems quite reasonable - the top level
has a complete view of the Harbor unhindered by said highway, and the
highway itself takes up roughly half the footprint it otherwise would
need to.

[p***@yahoo.com]

Post by Mike Tantillo
The Gowanus rehab is happening, and has been for many years, and many
years to come i'm sure.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
What exactly is the alternative?
I do not believe there is one that is acceptible.

Then again, I do not believe that any project which would shut down 3
lanes of the BQE for a long term period of time is acceptable either,
due to the construction impacts on traffic. So I highly doubt they
will completely shut down one of the cantilevers to replace it. Doing
an in-place rehab seems like it would take forever, but thats likely
the only reasonable option.

Mike:
Do you remember back in the 80's they shut down the BQE at Carroll
Street, and
re-routed the traffic on the parallel streets. IIRC there was a
collapsing clay
drainage pipe that was threatening the roadway.

They are reconstructing the long Park Ave Viaduct and the mess at
Tillery St.
The reconstruction of the Bklyn Hts Prominade structures probably will
not start
for quite a while.

Take care,
Randy in Clearwater, FL

[Mike Tantillo]

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Post by Mike Tantillo
The Gowanus rehab is happening, and has been for many years, and many
years to come i'm sure.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
What exactly is the alternative?
I do not believe there is one that is acceptible.

Then again, I do not believe that any project which would shut down 3
lanes of the BQE for a long term period of time is acceptable either,
due to the construction impacts on traffic. So I highly doubt they
will completely shut down one of the cantilevers to replace it. Doing
an in-place rehab seems like it would take forever, but thats likely
the only reasonable option.

Do you remember back in the 80's they shut down the BQE at Carroll
Street, and
re-routed the traffic on the parallel streets. IIRC there was a
collapsing clay
drainage pipe that was threatening the roadway.

Actually no.....though I lived in the area at the time, I was too young
and not yet a roadgeek (my roadgeekdom began around 1990 when I was 10
years old)

Post by p***@yahoo.com
They are reconstructing the long Park Ave Viaduct and the mess at
Tillery St.
The reconstruction of the Bklyn Hts Prominade structures probably will
not start
for quite a while.

Oh, I know, its still a mess, though at least they manage to keep all
the lanes opened on the BQE through the Tillery Street area. But part
of the keeping all the lanes open means they need to be able to shift
the median barrier....something you cant do in the Brooklyn Heights
section.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
Take care,
Randy in Clearwater, FL

[Ralph Herman]

Post by Mike Tantillo

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Post by Mike Tantillo
The Gowanus rehab is happening, and has been for many years, and many
years to come i'm sure.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
What exactly is the alternative?
I do not believe there is one that is acceptible.

Then again, I do not believe that any project which would shut down 3
lanes of the BQE for a long term period of time is acceptable either,
due to the construction impacts on traffic. So I highly doubt they
will completely shut down one of the cantilevers to replace it. Doing
an in-place rehab seems like it would take forever, but thats likely
the only reasonable option.

Do you remember back in the 80's they shut down the BQE at Carroll
Street, and
re-routed the traffic on the parallel streets. IIRC there was a
collapsing clay
drainage pipe that was threatening the roadway.

Actually no.....though I lived in the area at the time, I was too young
and not yet a roadgeek (my roadgeekdom began around 1990 when I was 10
years old)

Post by p***@yahoo.com
They are reconstructing the long Park Ave Viaduct and the mess at
Tillery St.
The reconstruction of the Bklyn Hts Prominade structures probably will
not start
for quite a while.

Oh, I know, its still a mess, though at least they manage to keep all
the lanes opened on the BQE through the Tillery Street area. But part
of the keeping all the lanes open means they need to be able to shift
the median barrier....something you cant do in the Brooklyn Heights
section.

Post by p***@yahoo.com
Take care,
Randy in Clearwater, FL

The 1940's BQE cantilevered structure needs to be strengthened, the question
is whether to rehabilitate the structure or replace it entirely with current
design standards (such as shoulders). There is also the eastbound low
clearance under the Brooklyn Bridge which needs to be addressed, plus
connectors to the Brooklyn Bridge.

Although some will disagree, I think the 1940's cantilevered section is
still one of the best urban highway designs for a freeway in a very
congested neighborhood, but is needs modernization, while keeping true to
the basic concepts of the original design. The Promenade above the BQE is
one of the great public spaces in NYC... and there is no way local residents
will allow it to be used for any purpose during construction

My suggestion is to redirect traffic to a temporary roadway or viaduct along
East River shoreline from the Atlantic Avenue interchange to the Brooklyn
Bridge Interchange... sort of like what NYSDOT did with the FDR rebuild in
Midtown. I know it will cost tens of millions of dollars to build a
temporary structure, but in the end I believe this is the only way a modern
BQE design will happen... and I think the local residents will be more
willing for the concept if it keeps interstate traffic off their local
streets at night and on weekends.

Close down the BQE entirely... night and weekend work will not be possible
with the thousands of very wealthy folks along the BQE right of way.
Rebuild the viaduct during normal construction hours... in a lot less time
than trying to rehabilitate it while traffic is using the viaduct.

Just my 2 cents.

Ralph

[p***@yahoo.com]

Post by Ralph Herman
My suggestion is to redirect traffic to a temporary roadway or viaduct along
East River shoreline from the Atlantic Avenue interchange to the Brooklyn
Bridge Interchange... sort of like what NYSDOT did with the FDR rebuild in
Midtown. I know it will cost tens of millions of dollars to build a
temporary structure, but in the end I believe this is the only way a modern
BQE design will happen... and I think the local residents will be more
willing for the concept if it keeps interstate traffic off their local
streets at night and on weekends.
Ralph

A vary good idea, I hope they do it.

Do you remember exactly what they did re: that collapsing clay drainage
pipe
at the BQE and Carroll St back in the 80's.

IIRC they closed the roadway and re-routed traffic on the side streets.

I think they did it over a weekend or a similar brief period.

I remember there was a lot of opposition to it, but it had to be done,
otherwise the whole roadway would have collapsed.

Thanks,
Take care,
Randy in S Dade, FL

[j***@hotmail.com]

Sorry, my bitter NYC road-geek side showed itself. What I meant is
that big projects around here are constantly subject to interminable
delays. Look at the Gowanus project - didn't the EIS start in 1994?
It's taken them so long (they're still not done with the EIS) that
they've had to start an "emergency interim deck replacement project"
while they ooze their way towards the record of decision, which would
be about eleventy-billion years from now. And once that's done they
have to find funding!

Post by p***@yahoo.com

Yeah, OK, like that project will ever happen...Sir,

I promise you it will happen.
Those structures are very old and in bad shape,
they must be replaced. Just like the Gowonus.
It has to happen. Expensive, yes, but it will happen.
What exactly is the alternative?
I do not believe there is one that is acceptible.
Take care,
Randy in Clearwater, FL

[j***@hotmail.com]

Let the bile spew forth!! :D

Other projects of note:

Whitestone Expressway rehab - Started in 2003 should've been done in
August of '06. Now completion is delayed until 2008.

Koszciusco (spelling?) Bridge replacemen/rehab - Another BQE project.
Over the past 3 years, the "earliest possible date of construction
start" has been pushed back bay a few years. That's assuming the
project web site is accurate, which is unlikely since NYS DOT updates
it once every 18 months.

NYS Transportation Bond issue. This was approved by referendum in
November of 2005. Supposedly to provide mucho cash for a host of new
projects. Most notably for me is the Kew Gardens Interchange rebuild,
since I travel it often. Since the initial list of funded projects was
released in July of 2005, not a peep has issued forth from NYS DOT. No
further information can be found on these planned improvements. Thanks
for keeping us abreast of what's going on, Albany!!

Second Ave subway...started and stopped multiple times over the last
eighty years...don't get me started on that one.

Sorry, I'll stop griping now. To be fair there have been a few
projects that were done very nicely. Like the Williamsburg Bridge
rehab, the BQE segment in Woodside, Queens was very impressive and the
ongoing FDR Drive project seems to be proceeding at a good pace (maybe
even (gasp!!) on schedule). The reconstruction of the LIE from the
Midtown-Tunnel to Queens Blvd and also the interchange with the Cross
Island Parkway were most excellent IMHO.

OK, so maybe I don't have that much to complain about. I just felt
like venting. ;)

[p***@yahoo.com]

Post by j***@hotmail.com
Sorry, my bitter NYC road-geek side showed itself. What I meant is
that big projects around here are constantly subject to interminable
delays. Look at the Gowanus project - didn't the EIS start in 1994?
It's taken them so long (they're still not done with the EIS) that
they've had to start an "emergency interim deck replacement project"
while they ooze their way towards the record of decision, which would
be about eleventy-billion years from now. And once that's done they
have to find funding!

My friend,
You are talking about the absolutely most difficult terrain, anywhere
to construct
absolutely anything. You know for every two New Yorkers, you get three
or four opinions.

And of course you are dealing with the legacy of Rober Moses and the
"Community
Boards" that were created in his wake.

You are dealing with a very old Expressway system that is way
underdesigned for the 21st century and runs not just in proximity of
one of the most densely populated urban environments in the world, but
in its shadows and back yards.

One of the problems is the "low bid" system of contracting. The lowest
bidder gets the contract. In some cases of NYSDOT Reg 11 construction
contacts, I know that the
low bid contractor has gone bankrupt with out completing the contract,
and that
really messes up the schedule.

And lets not forget the expense of contructing anything in NYC.
And the ROW...

It is unlike doing anything in lets say Iowa, and the ensuing problems
and controversies
can be extremely monumental.

But please understand one thing the Big Dig fiasco happened in Boston.


Take care,
Randy in S Dade, FL

[John Mara]

Post by p***@yahoo.com
One of the problems is the "low bid" system of contracting. The lowest
bidder gets the contract. In some cases of NYSDOT Reg 11 construction
contacts, I know that the
low bid contractor has gone bankrupt with out completing the contract,
and that
really messes up the schedule.

It's actually the lowest responsive bidder. But responsive bidder is
anyone who can get a completion bond. I think that the standard for a
completion bond should be completion on schedule. The bonding company
would have to be ready to go with another contractor immediately. This
would make them think twice about who they are willing to bond.

John Mara

[John F. Carr]

Post by John Mara

Post by p***@yahoo.com
One of the problems is the "low bid" system of contracting. The lowest
bidder gets the contract. In some cases of NYSDOT Reg 11 construction
contacts, I know that the
low bid contractor has gone bankrupt with out completing the contract,
and that
really messes up the schedule.

It's actually the lowest responsive bidder. But responsive bidder is
anyone who can get a completion bond. I think that the standard for a
completion bond should be completion on schedule.

Contracts may specify liquidated damages for delays. The
contractor for the Route 3 north widening project was fined
over a million dollars by the Massachusetts Highway Department
under such a provision. If the penalty for delay does not
compensate for the intangible costs, it isn't high enough.

Post by John Mara
The bonding company
would have to be ready to go with another contractor immediately.

You're talking about having the contract awarded to two companies,
with one of them guaranteed to have it cancelled. That's how you
have a second company ready to go. That's going to substantially
increase costs. I bet it would be a lot cheaper to go with the
un-American method of awarding a contract to the second-lowest
bidder.